Really special feature on Midwest-Bayless in Hagerty!

Discussion in 'Discussion Forum' started by Greg (in Conn), Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Greg (in Conn)

    Greg (in Conn) X driver- Bertone curator

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Stoney#1, jrt, avusblue98 and 9 others like this.
  2. bbrown

    bbrown Bob Brown Moderator

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Awesome article! +1 !!
     
  3. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    How can one article be so full of fact and fiction at the same time?

    One fact: we finally have a published number on what a K20 conversion costs: $30-$40,000.

    Several fictions:
    (a) "The X1/9 shell accepts the K20 with ease....."
    (b) "As you’d expect from a Honda engine, the K20 catches on the first crank...…"
    (c) "At a curb weight well below one ton...."
     
    Ulix and mkmini like this.
  4. autox19

    autox19 True Classic

    Location:
    East Lansing, Mi
    In Hagerty, it has a chance to reach the right crowd to get more people interested!

    Good job Brannons!

    Odie
     
  5. Greg (in Conn)

    Greg (in Conn) X driver- Bertone curator

    Location:
    Connecticut
  6. Fiataccompli

    Fiataccompli Chris Granju

    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    just another reason to dig Hagerty. Nice press, Matt & family!
     
  7. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    Great write-up! Congrats to everyone at Bayless!
     
  8. Rupunzell

    Rupunzell Bernice Loui

    Location:
    California
    Good write up, good media exposure.
    Difficult to predict what happens after this article.

    Moto values are often dependent on moto buyer and collectors perception of, "will their investment appreciate in value." Friend who has a restoration shop in Italy and is currently contracted by Ferrari to restore about 100 of their cars told me many of his clients know next to zero about their collector ride, but know almost every aspect of how their investment might increase in market value.

    This is the reality of high performance modified rides like the K20 powered exxe. The market for them is small and highly specialized. Which brings up the reality of brand identity and marketing or why car brands go racing, to create a brand identity and brand image in the public eye resulting in perceived value.

    I'll bring this up again.. If Fiat back in the day put the full effort of Abarth into the exxe as a race car winning numerous events year after year, the exxe would be a highly sought after collectable with social status and much more. Reality is, Fiat management did all they can to stunt development of the exxe or creation of brand identity, brand image. This reality of the past has haunted the exxe to this day. Will this harsh reality change, maybe, only time will tell.


    Bernice
     
    mkmini likes this.
  9. aarpcard

    aarpcard True Classic

    Location:
    NJ
    I'll admit I've always been slightly confused as to why the Bertone coachmaker branding has not resuted in a stronger brand identity for the X.

    Pininfarina bodied cars, by comparison, seem to me to enjoy a stronger brand identity in relation to the coachmaker (thus increasing their desirability).

    Personally, the Bertone branding along with all of the history that goes with the brand is a large part of what drew me specifically to the X - when I could have instead bought another MR2 or a late model Fiero.

    Perhaps it has something to do with Bertone being essentially defunct and having barely a few notable automotive design contracts from the 21st century. Maybe to the general population they've been forgotten.
     
  10. Bjwhite

    Bjwhite True Classic

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    What you didn’t like the Riich G5? :)
     
  11. BEEK

    BEEK True Classic

    Location:
    Clermont Fl
  12. Henk Martens

    Henk Martens True Classic

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Ciao amici,

    Great article, thank you.
    Matt Brannon and family are doing a great job for all X 1/9 friends all over the world !
    It is important to have such X 1/9 and car adapts

    Saluti,

    Henk Martens
    Netherlands
     
  13. Rupunzell

    Rupunzell Bernice Loui

    Location:
    California
    The exxe has pretty much been a Carrozzeria (coach builder) car from the very beginning, was never really a Fiat. Marketing and brand identity creation takes far more than being associated with a famed Carrozzeria or designer (Marcello Gandini & Giuseppe Puleo https://books.google.com/books?id=g31WPjolhE4C&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=giuseppe+puleo+fiat&source=bl&ots=H_C1hlW9ZN&sig=B48T3HWkcEBQAStyzy2Z991WvUw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj75ojsq43cAhUKbK0KHe6bB44Q6AEIXzAP#v=onepage&q=giuseppe puleo fiat&f=false )

    Creation of brand identity and how that brand identity is marketed makes all the difference. Good example is Porsche. Before Porsche became a coveted brand in America, Porsche was a zero in the American car market landscape. This began to change when Porsche asked and got involved with Rodger Penske and Mark Donahue. Porsche sought to create a brand identity of race winner and they figured out Mark & Rodger were the folks who could get this done. As most car folks know what were the results from Porsche's early investment into this effort and how that effort has affected the Porsche brand to this day. Much like the Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil results in the very best engine oil myth, these beliefs-myths take on a life of their own in the minds of moto folks. Notable is the current market value of Porsche 356. They have gone from nearly forgotten to often past six figures of U$D, not about performance, much about investment potential and where those who have too much $ can stash it safe enough. That age old moto adage, "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday." has merit.

    Would be easy to go on and on about this, which is nothing really new. Those who have any curiosity and interest should simply do a search on Xweb about all that has been written about this specific topic.

    For now, enjoy what is essentially a low cost un-discovered Italian Carrozzeria exotic. They are not going to last much longer for a host of reasons, including owner-driver neglect, suppressed market values, lack of specific parts to replace what has died. In many ways the exxe is like art, purchase and own art to enjoy rather than be owned by the art's market value.


    Bernice




     
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  14. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    I own and love both of my X1/9's, because I love them. You could even call my '85 Bertone a rescue car, because the young man, who owned it for a short while before I did, said, after I was safely its new owner, that he thought the car was a bit ugly. In my head the thoughts poured in: "Whoa. Really? I'm sure glad I'm its new owner. I'm sure glad Mike Mittelstead helped get the car onto eBay, so that I could find it, and become the winning bidder." I did give voice to my high admiration for Gandini's design work, and told the previous owner the names of other Gandini cars I've admired since I was boy: Alpha Romeo Carabo concept car, Lamborghini Countach, Maserati Khamsin, and Lancia Stratos. For me, to own an X1/9 (or two) is not an investment, but a love affair.
     
    Yves likes this.
  15. Greg (in Conn)

    Greg (in Conn) X driver- Bertone curator

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Photos from the Press kit Bertone put together when Nuccio passed away in 1997.

    Carabo, Countach and X1/9 all on the same card with the Zero. :cool:

    nhn.PNG
     
    Chaostoy, mkmini and raillard like this.
  16. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    I do love the appearance of both Lancia Stratos models, the concept Zero, and the "plain" production model. The only one missing for me is the Khamsin, which I know is a Gandini design, and I assume is among his Bertone work, too. It pleases me to see what looks like my own '85 X in that spread, complete with Tron wheels, though I think the colors here are probably silver over black (in sunset lighting), instead of my gold over metallic brown.

    Several cars, over the years, have sported an additional back window, to complement the main rear window, similar to the Khamsin -- a few that come to mind are most of the Toyota Prius models, the original 2-seater Honda Insight, and the Honda CR-Z. Another style-point I absolutely adore in the Khamsin is the asymmetrical grill treatment on top of the front hood. At the 1/3 mark the grill shifts position, so it's not simply a straight line, nor is it cut in half, it's split into 1/3 and 2/3 sections. I don't know why I love that so, but I do!
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  17. olerascal

    olerascal True Classic

    Location:
    Damascus Oregon
    Hey Hans! Thx for the props. Do you recall the backstory?


    I saw your '85 X frequently over many yrs...driven by elderly lady in my 'hood.
    When she advertised on CL, I checked it out & drove it.
    I wasn't really a buyer, since I had several Xs at the time.
    But had a habit of checking out every X I saw,
    whether advertised or sitting in fields or yards.

    Soon after it was sold to young fellow Hans mentioned.
    Very much a "Spicolli" type...surfer, stoner, hipster, earth muffin.
    Not a sports car type at all...he bought 4wd toyota van to replace X.
    Then he advertised X on CL with bad pics & poor description.
    I reached out to him to offer my copy writing, & advise proper photos.
    To my surprise, he staged nice photos.

    I offered to list on my ebay account...knowing local CL market for
    premium survivor X was limited.
    Simply out of love for the X in general, & a fondness for an X I watched for many yrs.
    I asked no compensation from "Spicolli" or Hans (tho' Hans offered, bless his heart).

    When Hans won the auction, I picked him up at airport in my IceBlueX.
    Put him up for the night, had "Spicolli" bring the X to my house,
    & they completed the transaction.
    Final pic in my mind is Hans driving away in his new X.
    That was at least a decade ago.

    Memories like this sustain me as infirmaries have forced
    liquidation of 8 Fiats, 2 sheds full of parts,
    & ended 40 yrs of driving track events.
     
    Ulix, mkmini and raillard like this.
  18. Rupunzell

    Rupunzell Bernice Loui

    Location:
    California
    X1/9, Stratos, Miura and many others styled, packaged by Marcello Gandini in the Italian tradition of Art, Science and more. These are the foundations as to why these Italian designs endure the test of time. Gandini is not the only one, Nuccio Bertone also did design work, but it was his ability to recognize gifted talent blended with the ability to support and cultivate talent that resulted in many of the enduring works of Mobile Art today. Giorgetto Giugiaro was a Bertone personality, he went on to found Ital Design which is now part of VW group. There are numerous other like Sergio Pinninfarina, Ugo Zagato, Sergio Scaglietti....

    While there are visual sharing of the x1/9 and Stratos, there is also sharing under sheet metal. This link has been posted before, still, note the similarities between x1/9 and Stratos, not surprising due to the designs originating from the same mind. Or why upping the power train in the exxe is not that difficult as it's foundation that good.

    https://teamspeed.com/forums/masera...-full-chassis-restoration-done-kreissieg.html


    Bernice

     
    raillard likes this.
  19. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    Thank you, dear friend, for sharing more of the backstory. I knew some of it, already, but now I have a more complete picture of the events leading up to my eventual ownership. Like a caring veterinary doctor will go to great length to find a good home for a rescue dog or cat, I now see how much you did to make sure my '85 rescue X got itself into a loving home!

    Next spring it will have been a decade. Even after all that time my memory of the events are still so vivid that I can offer a few tiny corrections to the details in this paragraph. When I was waiting in the front of Portland Airport, with the throngs of people, and throngs of cars driving by to pick us up, my own ride was obvious. You had come to pick me up in Mellow Yellow, which was then almost ready for its new owner. I remember thinking, "I'm being picked up by my own Yellow Cab X1/9 service!"

    The previous owner of my '85 X had delivered the car to you beforehand, so that you could take care of a few small rust spots for me, all for the cost of the two small cans of paint. (bless you for that, too!) That made for a dramatic moment, when we pulled up with Mellow Yellow, and you could open the garage door, and reveal the bride -- I mean car -- to be! You then shared with me the butyl-rubber trick to keep the Tron caps on the wheels, and I have never lost one yet. It was the usual bachelor-party discussions about the right way of doing things. :D (Sorry, you can see why I call my three cars my harem!)

    We moved my car-to-be outside, to give Mellow Yellow its garage spot again, and I took the '85 X for a little test spin. I believe the previous owner had a music gig that evening, so the next morning he visited, and you witnessed the changing of the papers -- the transfer of cashier's check for ownership papers. The previous owner then showed off his right-hand drive Japanese import Toyota van, and we had our little eye-opening chat -- which car did he think was ugly? ;) Didn't matter anymore -- I had the keys to the one that I felt was infinitely superior! Thank you again for your part in making it possible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    mkmini likes this.
  20. raillard

    raillard True Classic

    I'm not surprised to see Giorgetto Giugiaro's name, though I was not aware of any connection to Bertone. I've always had a fondness for the styling of the VW Karmann Ghia, and the VW Scirocco. I do understand that most Karmann Ghia's are from another Italian artist, but I did want to point out that you can compare the early Beetle with the Karmann Ghia, and the early Golf/Rabbit with the Scirocco and basically have a style contest between German and Italian artists -- which is to say, no-contest at all. I still appreciate German craftsmanship in other areas of the automotive sciences. It pleases me greatly that both of my X1/9's have many Bosch items under their beautiful skins. It also pleases me that the electric drivetrain inside my 500e is almost entirely a Bosch creation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018

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