Rebuilt engine, problems....

V

vinnietee

TimeX
New engine different trouble
Thursday June 25

Drove the TimeX home today finally after getting a rebuilt engine installed.

Burst the fuel line on the way. Stopped in front of a service station. Got pushed into their property, and they were able to replace the fuel line.

Got home OK. Ran the engine to check it. Oil leaking.

Oil stopped leaking.

No oil in the engine.

Oil light on.

Engine Ex. Sensory light on. Never saw that one on in 26 years.

Tow back to mechanic in the morning. Not taking a chance to drive it there

Oil Pressure Switch was bad
Friday June 26

Here is the latest...

The Oil Pressure Switch was bad. , It didn't leak while idling. It leaked after I drove the car home, about 20 minutes.

He replaced the switch with the one from my old engine.

I drove the car home gain tonight, it feels great. After about 15 minutes the temp is climbing. By the time I made it home, about 25 minutes, it was about 225 degrees. I pulled in the garage, the front fan was one.

I shut off the engine, another fan runs in the engine.

I turn the key, and the front fan comes on.

After dinner, I ran the engine 20 minutes. temp got to midway on gauge, 190 degrees. front fan came on after 15 minutes, the cycled on and off every minute or so. I shut off the engine after 20 minutes.

After 2 minutes I take the car out on the road. The temp gets halfway after 10 minutes, then creeps up to 220 or so. I can't hear if the fan is on over road noise.

I pull into garage after about 20 minutes, I hear the fan in front is running. Turn off engine. Rear fan is running a bit. Stops. I turn the key and the front fan runs about 20 seconds. Stops. I turn off key.

PLUS factor: no oil leak.

The old engine always ran under 190, especially when moving at a normal speed. This one stayed at about 220. Is there a breaking in period where the temp should come down? Or is there another problem to address?

Thanks for your help and input.
 
What engine is this?

Assuming 1.5 l FI: The rear fan seems to be working as intended. It is supposed to run after you turn off the engine if the engine compartment is hot. To accomplish this, the fan is controlled by both the oil pressure switch (engine not running -> no oil pressure -> oil pressure switch closed) and a thermo switch mounted to the valve cover.

Since this is a newly installed engine, I would check carefully if you got all the air bled out of the cooling system. I think there is one air bleed valve on the block somewhere and another one up front.
 
Check the temperature of the radiator.

If the lower half of the radiator is cool, and the top half is really hot (when your gauge is showing 225) then most likely you need a radiator rod out / recore.

X19 has the tubes running left/right, not vertical like most cars, and the lower tubes get blocked by crud. You symptoms are classic partly blocked radiator.

SteveC
 
Hey Vinnie... Sorry for all your troubles...

But hey... I agree with the others. If the old engine remained cool, then I wuld ASSUME the radiator is OK and the front fan is cycling as it should. So is the goddam rear carb or FI fan...

So... either you have an air gap in the radiator... or your T-Stat is the problem.

Did you install a NEW stat when thie engine was built or rebuilt? If not, I would... and use ther correct two-stage type. Our venders have them or I listed a Stant number in Best Of.

Otherwise... there are at least 100 methods to purge the air out of the radiator. Let us know if that may be the case and I'll give you a few ideas of MY favorites. (I would NOT use the bleed valve on the top of the radiator if you have NOT used it before...)
 
Tony, it's poor logic to assume because the old engine remained cool, then the radiator must be OK... when the cooling system is drained (like when the engine was out for it's rebuild) the pipes under the car dry out, and scale can flake off, which finally ends up stuck in the radiator lower tubes...

Same with engine block... scale from inside the water jacket may not have been scraped out sufficiently well... and has ended up in the radiator.... I've seen many sohc blocks choked with debris around the rear water jacket plate.

And....If there was a sufficiently large air bubble in the system to prevent circulation, then the radiator fan wouldn't switch on, the radiator would be very cool due to no circulation.

Same if the thermostat was stuck shut, radiator would be cool while the engine was boiling

Just some of the little things you pick up being a professional Fiat trained mechanic for nearly 30 years..

SteveC
 
Saturday....

Ran the engine 30 minutes before the temp hit 190 and the front fan came on. I thought that was a good thing.

So I drove to work, short distance... 15 minutes, watching the temo creep up to 220. when I got to work I could hear the front fan running.

The temp used to come down when the car was moving with the natural air flow through the engine to cool down.

This seems not to be happening.

I felt the radiator was hot top and bottom.
 
Hey Steve...

Would reversing the radiator hoses affect the cooling. (in the bottom of the radiator and out the top) I almost did it once hooking up the hoses by the engine.
 
Last edited:
Steve...

I said ASSUME in caps for a reason, and never did I say MUST...

You make some very good points about the fan though and its operation and I would tend to agree.

With all that being said... what is YOUR best guess based on your professional experience?

I'm routing for the 'stat... as in the if it doesn't entirely CLOSE (or close enough), it could be NOT allowing the water to COOL long enough radiator. His symptoms of continually getting hotter and hotter tend to convince me of this. That would again be ASSUMING the radiator is kinda OK.

He still hasn't mentioned anything about the stat either... would be a good thing to have NEW in any case...
 
Tony, well first I would be removing the thermostat and testing it, because that's a lot easier than removing the radiator, just to eliminate that possiblity.

Place thermostat into pan with cold water and bring to the boil, thermostat not touching the bottom of pan, note temp that thermostat begins to open (about 78c) note temp at which thermostat is fully open (about 92c) and measure the height change of the small disc, it should have at least 8mm of travel.

If the thermostat doesn't open, as I said before, coolant will continually cirulate only thru the engine, which will boil in the block while the radiator is still cool...

If the thermostat fails to close fully or is partially stuck open, then the water will flow forwards to the radiator while the engine is warming up, and it will take a long time for the engine to reach operating temps.

The system capacity of the X19 is so large that 20 minutes of idling from cold to front fan coming on is about right.

If the thermostat doesn't open enough, and the small disc doesn't close off the recirculation circuit thru the engine, then the radiator tends to stay cool while the engine boils, as the water will take the path of least resistance (thru the recirculation circuit) and little flow goes forwards to the radiator.

my 0.02cents is still with a partially blocked radiator.

Tom, well PBS in their "how to X1/9" book actually recommend hot in at the bottom, as this will force any air up and back to the header tank ... personally I have always been a fan of hot in the top, and cool out the bottom and back to the engine, so I've never tried it the other way.

SteveC
 
AMEN... only one modification I might suggest...

When cooking the t-stat, add the NEW one to the pot also WITH Mom's Turkey Temperature Probe.

A clear glass pot helps even more to "Stare and Compare" the old and new stats against the thermometor.

And one other comment, which is a key learning and belief I have, but not necessarily accepted by all.

The failure of the stat to CLOSE completely or CLOSE in a timely manner was the primary issue I experienced as my car tended to operate at higher than normal temperatures. It would take some time to heat up (as some water went ahead to the radiator) and then would continue to get hotter and hotter, as the water did not have a chance to properly cool up from, before being returned to the engine. Once I installed the new stat... I hang at 185 on even the hottest days here in the desert of SoCal... and its never been better.

I also have a "belief" that once an engine has been overheated (250+f) that the stat has been over extended... and never seems to operate the same way again. I suggest installing a new stat, just because of this. I think the boiling test in a pan compared against a new one would prove this belief out also...

Good Chatting with ya... Let's see what Vinnie does with all this. Hope it helps...

Oh... and one last thought... Tom at PBS... these guys usually know their stuff... but I agree with you as heat wants to rise... keep the hottest on top so it doesn't fight physics...
 
New thermostat on the way

been tough to get the TimeX rolling this year. Life keeps getting in the way. Too many things to do, lousy weqather all of june in the northeast, etc etc Xcetera.

Should have the new stat in Wednesday. The old stat was overcooked when the enine overheated due to the bad cylinder.
 
The mechanic rebuilt the engine and didn't replace the stat?

Ummm... that makes no sense at all.

I hope the new stat fixes you up Vinnie, but don't discount the advice on the radiator. My 78 exhibited the same behavior of slowly climbing temps when driving at speed. I got a new rad and it cleared the problem up. So if the new stat doesn't solve the problem, you know what to check next.
 
Me too.

My Bertone had the same symptom. Temps were fine around town, but get it on the freeway and after about 30-40 mins. the temps would creep up.

Tried a plastic sheet at the bottom of the space between the Corsa body kit and the radiator, to help force air through the radiator. Helped some, but still the problem persisted.

A new radiator from Obert swapped right in and Presto!:italia:
 
No, the mechanic did not rebuild the engine....

I got the engine, and he put it in. One problem at a time now to clear up. The radiator was replaced NEW in 2006 when I dd the restoration.

Almost everything has now been replaced.


Still original: the exhaust, yes the exhaust, transmission, and the owner
 
As part of a cooling system overhaul I ordered a new stat for my car from Vicks.

What I received I have to say looks disappointing. The original Savara looks to be all-brass and solidly constructed, and with its rubber collar fits the stat housing perfectly.

The new unit is a no name, looks pretty flimsy, and does not really fit snugly into the stat housing regardless of which if the two rubber collars I use (I have one square edged and one round-edged). The bypass stopper is smaller in diameter than the OEM and the full flow opening is a LOT smaller than OEM. Oddly, the full flow opening is eccentrically positioned on the main flange. In the main flange, the new one also has a small hole with a "dingleberry" which I guess is supposed to allow trapped air to eventually escape from the system.

Not sure what I am going to do. I will check with other vendors to see if anyone has NOS OEM. If not I may test my old one and if OK clean the scale off of it and put it back in.

The bad news is that I paid $32.50 for the new one.
 
Stant 45378... in just about any parts store...

... and usually less than $12 bucks.

Sorry for your trouble.

This one WORKS and FITS right...
 
No trouble really, Tony. It's all apart anyway, so now's the time to avoid trouble by not installing some half-assed unit. :)

IMG_0761.jpg


IMG_0763.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top