Removing the head

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by Tavalin, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    I have started to remove the head on the 1986 1500 FI. What a pain. I had to cut a few hoses off due to them melting to the fittings. Anyway, need to change out some things while in there.
    So I have everything disconnected and ready to pull the head WHENNNNN I found out that a special tool is needed to take out the 17mm head bolts.
    Where in earth will I find one? I saw the lost that might have alternatives but I don’t want nor can I afford to purchase until I find the one that will work.
    What has been discovered as an alternative to the factory version?
    Pics below of what I have done so far.

    Enjoy,
    Mike

    6C1CB205-2362-46D1-81CF-1C5D60730F2B.jpeg 555FF386-0829-4531-ABD2-298B8059814A.jpeg D8C72535-C4BE-416C-843F-D36FF7D82123.jpeg 24E8C488-4B7D-4721-98AA-70EBAEEB0B12.jpeg D3D23180-73F7-4D12-8CF8-6BF48F602CBF.jpeg 1FE93619-AC4C-4FB9-8694-61FD96A3C6C7.jpeg 47FD19F7-E159-41FB-8773-A021A5AE2892.jpeg DCCBFDC9-F18D-4284-957A-B817C19DA4BD.jpeg 26F9C222-5CDC-4B43-B1D8-B1D06F0D550D.jpeg ACEBB380-211D-4C00-A25B-240406D841B8.jpeg C3DBA4F8-02B3-4D70-AA15-498CCDB89F98.jpeg 45802933-1EDF-4C9A-B550-4D1F9FF4C8CB.jpeg 7AB0105F-8C03-4348-BE91-CB25E45EEC46.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  2. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    You don't need any special tools to remove the head - take the cambox off first, then the head bolts are readily accessible.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  3. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Thanks!!! Now I will need another gasket but that is perfect.
    I will try that tomorrow. One more thing to add to the list but it is okay. Hopefully, I will have the X back on the road with a new(er) radiator and the AC working as well.
    I will post more pics later after work.
    Mike
     
  4. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    get a couple of the cam box gaskets - it's pretty easy to tear them...
     
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  5. EricH

    EricH Eric Hamilton Moderator

    Location:
    Durham NC, USA
    If you have the paper cambox gasket, soaking it in oil for a while makes it a lot easier to install. Plan on checking your valve clearances after you have everything back together - if the new gasket is thicker/thinner than the old, the clearances will change.
     
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  6. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Why is the head coming off?

    This R&R job is made easier if you remove the access panel between the rear trunk and the engine compartment. Also helps esp during reassembly if you remove the distributor access panel in the engine compartment firewall.

    You will need the special tools to reinstall the head---not so much upon initial installation but when it comes time to retorque the cyl head bolts, if you use something other than the combination of new stretch bolts (available from European suppliers) and the Astadur-style no-retorque head gasket.

    When it comes time to reinstall the cam box onto the head, I find it helpful to use those super duper hi-strength magnets to hold the cam buckets up against the camshaft lobes, otherwise they want to fall out as you are trying to place the cambox back onto the head without damaging that super thin and easily damaged head-to-cam box gasket. Available on eBay, Amazon, and at Lowe's Depot in the nut-n-bolt-aisle. Helps when removing the cam box from the head, too, for the same reason.
     
    Tavalin likes this.
  7. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Dan,
    OMG!!! I am glad I didn’t remove the head yet. I have no idea what the cam buckets are. Man, a new engine would be easier than replacing the head gasket...lol
    I will have to research what to do with the magnets.
    Thanks so much. That would have dorked everything up if you hadn’t told me.
    Mike
     
  8. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    If you don't have a printed copy of the workshop manual, go to the Wiki section and download/print the applicable sections. The parts diagrams will help show you the moving parts you will be removing in the valve train.
     
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  9. carl

    carl True Classic

    Location:
    Virginia
    You can get a head set gasket set that includes all the gaskets/seals needed when removing the head. Whenremoving the cam box some buckets will stay on the head and some may stick in the cam box. Go slowly and once the cam box is off the head, tilt it so any remaining buckets won't fall out. Label which bucket/shim goes where. On reassembly you can use a dab of grease or assembly lube to hold the buckets in place in the cam box.
     
    Tavalin likes this.
  10. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Perhaps list what you have bought for the re-assembly.

    Beyond the HG set, you will need a set of head bolts, which will impact what tool you need to do the re-torque (or not) and you will want to replace the injector housing orings, and possibly other items.
     
  11. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Carl,
    What am I looking for? I viewed the Workshop Manual but for the life of me I don’t see the buckets/shims to know enough to try and mitigate them from falling out. Any pics (or crayon drawing for an old Marine) would be greatly appreciated.
    Mike
     
  12. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    So far, I have the head bolts from MWB and a head gasket.
    I have a list of several hoses and a thermostat that I will change out while everything is exposed. I lost a small clip from one of the sensor connectors so I am going to purchase another connector for that springy thing.
    I think MWB 17mm head bolts only need to be torqued once but I will read the instructions to ensure I do that correctly.

    This is going to be fun. I am going to try and pull the head tonight so we will see if I can do that right. Then seal off the pistons with plastic cups and do a good scrubbing to get rid of the dirt and debris. Then focus on the head. I have brake cleaner and a pan so I will spray it down and nylon brush it down to clean it.
    I need oil and antifreeze as well.
    I hope that is it but I know there is something I forgot.
    Wish me luck,
    Mike
     
  13. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    They are pretty easy to keep intact. First, a note about removing the cambox bolts. The valve springs are trying to push upward against the cambox for the valves that are open. For this reason, I don't like just going down the line and removing the bolts one after another, this tends to twist the cambox. Instead, I back out all cambox bolts by about 3 turns, then go back and do all of them 3 more turns, etc. This keeps the cambox somewhat even as the spring pressure from below pushes up on some areas of it and not others.

    Anyhow, once all the bolts are removed, I just grab the top of the cambox, palms down, and wrap my 8 fingers around the back side and underside of it to keep the 8 buckets in place. As Carl suggests, rolling the cambox towards you as you lift it helps stop the buckets from falling out. By using your fingers to hold them in, they can't drop out and scatter parts. Carry it over to your workbench, release the finger grip, and slowly lift straight up. The 8 buckets and shims will be all in a row on your workbench. Bag and tag, or just leave them there if you are sure they won't be disturbed.

    Pete
     
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  14. JimD

    JimD Waiting for Godot... Moderator

    Location:
    Missouri, USA
    Here is a picture of what Pete is talking about regarding evenly removing the cam box bolts rather than going one at a time. You can see the gap evenly forming as I was backing all the bolts off gradually. I was advised to slip a piece of cardboard under the buckets before rolling the cam box off. Holding the cardboard against the buckets did help manage them when I did this job.
    IM002546.JPG
     
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  15. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    If you bought their standard head bolts, there is a different torque sequence than Fiat bolts, and they still need the re-torque after an interval (which varies depending on whom you ask, so I'd ask MWB)

    "This is a set of 10 10mm x 1.25 thread head bolts for 81-88 fuel injected Fiat and Bertone X1/9s and 81-82 Fiat Strada. R10.9 in strength. 17mm head, so you can use the original factory box wrenches for installation. These are straight-torque bolts as opposed to OEM "torque to yield" taper-shank "stretch bolts".

    Requires an alternate torque process to that specified in the factory manual, in three steps: 20ft-lbs / 40ft-lbs / 62ft-lbs. Matched set, 5 long (100mm), 5 short (80mm). Slightly different in overall length and grip length from factory bolts, but fully suitable for the application."
     
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  16. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Pete,
    Thanks... so the cam box buckets are all on the front side (spark plug side) of the engine and they are easily held in just by my hands when pulling toward the rear of the vehicle??? That makes it easier. I am going to also purchase the magnets that were suggested by Dan. I think the more I don’t mess up the better.
    I would have never known to gradually pull the head bolts out to evenly apply pressure so thank you for that tip as well.
    Trying to find the time to continue this endeavor.
    Thanks again,
    Mike
     
  17. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    JimD,
    I will try cardboard as well as the magnets like Dan earlier suggested. Thanks for the tips.
    Mike
     
  18. Tavalin

    Tavalin Michael Motorcycle

    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    lookforjoe,
    I have the 17mm bolts on a ten bolt head. I know my ‘86 (manufactured April ‘86) should have the 14 bolt but the engine numbers match the build sheet I found. What is in it are 17mm bolts and the ones I purchased from Matt are the 17mm bolts, non-stretch that have a different torque setting than the stretch bolts.
    Man, I am learning a lot with this X1/9, thanks. When I get to the head bolts I will pull out the little instruction sheet that came with them. I will take a pic and post as well so everyone here will have it as a reference.

    I also did a total rebuild of the distributor I got from JimD. Again, a hard learning experience. That makes one I partially rebuilt and one I tore completely apart, cleaned and put back together. Now, I have a perfect original Bosch distributor when the engine is back together again.

    I really hope I remember how Humpty Dumpty goes back together...
    Mike
     
  19. Pete Whitstone

    Pete Whitstone True Classic

    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Cam box bolts, not head bolts. You can spin the head bolts out any old way you see fit. :)

    Pete
     
  20. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    As Pete noted, loosen the cam box to head capscrews a few turns each at a time.

    There are IIRC 3 different lengths (mostly long near the manifolds and short near the sparkplugs but maybe a mid size next to the pulley) so make a note of which ones go in which hole. And speaking of uses for cardboard :D, an old trick is to cut a flap off an old cardboard box, draw a sketch of the cambox on the cardboard, use a #2 phillips to make a hole in the cardboard corresponding to each hole in the cambox, and then as you remove them from the cambox, insert each capscrew into its hole in the cardboard. The holes don't have to be perfectly placed and spaced, it's just a way to help you remember which ones go in which hole.

    This guy was working on a Cummins diesel, but the trick is the same:
    [​IMG]


    Once the capscrews are out, and BEFORE you lift the cambox off the head, place your supermagnets. I borrowed this pic from a valve adjusting thread I posted, but the magnets would go approx where the green half-moon drawing is:
    [​IMG]

    The magnets are strong enough to hold the shim and bucket from falling out till you get the cambox over to your bench. They are nice to have when removing the cambox but REALLY handy when it comes time to put it back together.
     
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