Replacement gauges

I have been searching for a CC tachometer for a while. I find mechanical ones for aircraft but does anyone have a line on an automotive one? Speedhut has CC speedos but I don't see tachs there.
 
Noticed a quite interesting video from a Lotus restoration. Have a look at the virtual gauges 28 mins and 34 mins in to the video. https://youtu.be/WlZFoQ0xO2k
Finding an Android Pad with a screen that is wide and low enough to fit in the X1/9 dash seems to be impossible. However, a 7-8" Android to show functions such as Lambda, Turbo, oil temperature etc from ECU is doable. A flashing gear indicator and other features is also possible. Best of all; everything is working over Bluetooth (at least on MaxxECU) so no need for wiring.
 
a 7-8" Android to show functions such as Lambda, Turbo, oil temperature etc from ECU is doable
It's as if you had hacked my computer and knew what I've been doing today. o_O

A similar gauge display function is available with MegaSquirt (MS) ECUs as well. And today I have been reading about the requirements and limitations for it. The displays are not nearly as complex as the one in the video though...that is a very elaborate custom system.

The MS ECUs use TunerStudio (TS) software. And TS has the option to display the gauge screens that you would see on a laptop, but on a Android tablet. Lots of options on what is displayed and how it looks. Like you described BlueTooth (BT) can be used to connect it, although some MS ECU's will require a BT adapter because not all models include it onboard. I believe you can also connect it with a USB cable, eliminating the need for a BT adapter on those models. But I'm noticing most tablets only have one USB connection, so you would not be able to power the tablet with the car's charging system and connect to data on the ECU at the same time (I'm pretty sure the ECU's USB doesn't include a power output). And if the tablet is being installed in the dash as your gauge display then I would not want to run it on just the internal battery.

In addition to having BT, the tablet needs a real/full version of Android, which some of the lesser priced ones don't. Likewise it will need reasonable operating power, and memory if you want to use it's datalogging capability (another cool feature with it), that you might not get with "cheap" tablets. The people using this display feature on MS ECU's have discovered this also prevents the use of Android based head units offered by some stereo makers. So I was searching around to see what Android tablets might be good choices without breaking the bank. Afterall if I intend to leave it hardwired in the car as my permanent dashboard, then I really don't want to use a expensive high-end tablet.

There seem to be a couple good tablet choices around the $150 mark. But frankly for my low budget build that is a little high, especially when I can use reliable traditional gauges for significantly less than that. There might be a couple of less expensive tablets that are good enough and have all the right capabilities for around $80 (on sale). That is more in line with what I'd consider. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything less expensive that will work for this. However this would be the last thing I'd add to my project - after getting the car restored, turbo package completely built, ECU fully tuned, and everything sorted. So it may be quite some time, and there may be better tablet options available by then.

I'll be interested to hear what you find on it.
 
Here's an example of a more or less current GM truck dash -- 2016 Yukon XL Denali.
The tach and speedo right hand sweep, very readable, BUT, unless you are in manual shift mode the tach is pretty useless and the speedometer and it's accompanying digital display (on another screen) are mostly made useless by the heads up display.

20200526_201644.jpg
 
It’s all about the money. I am sure that little screen and supporting hardware/software was some notable coin.
 
Yes it's all about money. I've found Lenovo Android Pads for about 100 USD that I believe will do a good job. I think that is a cheaper option than buying individual gauges and switches for Lambda, Turbo, Oil etc. A Pad can also be used as navigator, music player...
Just like Dr Jeff I will finish my build before purchasing a Pad. However, I've already checked out some of the MaxxECU Mdash functions on my mobile and it is working great. The 5" screen is a little bit small though.
 
I think that is a cheaper option than buying individual gauges and switches for Lambda, Turbo, Oil etc.
For the most part yes. But it depends on what gauges we are talking about; the big name brands are expensive however there are also some more affordable options that will work perfectly. Plus I already have some of the gauges. But I agree, it is all about the money and $100 USD isn't bad for a good tablet (where did you see that? The closest I found on a similar one was about $150 USD). Although I see you are stating "pad" rather than "tablet", is there a obvious distinction? Most of the tablets I saw had those same features - GPS, music player, accelerometer, etc. - so I use those terms interchangeably. But my understanding of the terminology may not be correct.

As @kmead said, the examples in the linked video had to be very pricey. Especially the first one for the Mustang. Pretty fancy indeed, but honestly too complex for my taste. I'm not into playing around with techie gadgets like that so I'd find one display mode I liked and just leave it there.

I also have a old Android smartphone with a small 5" screen. When the time comes I'll see what it can do. But mine is a very early version with significant limitations, so it may not work for this.

There may be another option. I haven't looked into it further, but as I was investigating the dash display feature offered by MegaSquirt/TunerStudio I noticed several comments about using a Raspberry Pi. I believe they are using the Android based mini computer as a interface 'module', then any display screen can be used (the Raspberry has video outputs). There are many choices for screens of every size and shape, including ones designed specifically for use in automotive dashes. For example to display a backup camera image, or part of a audio/video system display. One idea I had comes from the backup camera on my fullsize 'shop truck'. The rearview mirror has a screen built into it that becomes 'invisible' when not in use. That would be a very stealthy way to have a modern digital gauge display in a classic car without it being obvious.

Something else I was thinking. How about mounting the tablet/display screen on a pivot, so it can be flipped backward when not in use (e.g. when the car is parked). Cover the back surface with the same material as the dash face so it becomes camouflaged. This would serve two purposes; extra security to prevent theft of it, and creating a more "period" looking dash when it isn't in use.
 
Thinking a little more about that Raspberry Pi concept. Some of the advantages seem to be; 1) it has more than ample performance for this use, rivling some of the better tablets (but at one tenth the cost), 2) it has BlueTooth to communicate with the ECU wirelessly (some lower priced tablets I saw did not have BT), 3) it is easily powered directly from the car's electrical system to automatically power and boot up when you start the car, 4) it is very small and easy to hide behind the dash, 5) there is enough memory capacity available to not only do data logging but to also store some tune maps (many of the tablets do not), 6) it easily connects to a small keyboard so (combined with reason #5) you could actually use it as a dedicated computer to interface with your ECU - allowing you to tune at any time without carrying a laptop onboard, 7) the wifi will allow connection to the net if needed for tune support, etc (naturally most tablets will as well), 8) the ability to use any display screen as noted previously. In fact it has two display outputs so you could use two screens in different locations. This seperate display benefit makes it more flexible for use in various custom dash configurations. As well as to make changes later on (e.g. get a bigger screen), without having to buy another device.
And financially it isn't bad. The device is $40-50. A 7" screen is another $40-50. and misc cables, etc might be another $20-30. So roughly $125 all in? Yes that's about the same as some tablets, but it seems to be more flexible and more capable. I still need to do more research to really understand it's capabilities. And this may be different for other (non MegaSquirt) ECUs (although it is a full Android device so I think it will work the same for others).

If any of you know anything about the Raspberry Pi please chime in.
 
I've got a couple of Raspberry Pi's, one as a security camera and the other used as for running Pi-Hole and as a DHCP server for my home network. Both of these use the default operating system, Raspbian, which is a type of Linux. As such the Pi's are fully programmable and can run practically all normal Linux software within the hardware limitations.

As far as I'm aware Android isn't officially supported on the Pi, and while there are some unofficial installers available, there may be some issues with getting it running consistently. The supported OS's are listed here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/
 
Last night after my prior post about the Raspberry Pi, I read a little more on the subject. I realized exactly what @Jeff Ward said, it isn't a Android based system (sorry for my confusion). In fact it typically comes without any operating system installed. While the Linux based Raspbian is commonly used, it can also run a Windows based OS. And that is where its benefit lies for MegaSquirt ECU users. The TunerStudio software (MegaSquirt) is best interfaced with a Windows computer for the set up, configuration, and tuning of the ECU. So by installing a tiny Pi in the vehicle they don't need an external computer (e.g. laptop) to fully access the ECU software. That way several maps can be stored, tuning performed anytime/anywhere, as well as diagnostics and other operations - including viewing all of the display options (gauges) - with the dedicated onboard computer. So it allows all of the digital gauge functions we discussed plus a lot more....at least for MegaSquirt ECU's. I'm not sure what other ECUs require to run the software so don't know if it will do the same there.

Regarding the price of a Pi. Last night I also saw some nice package deals that have everything needed, including a 7" touch screen and remote keyboard, for $100. However as I just stated it does not include the operating system. If Raspbian will work I believe that can be installed for free (is that right Jeff?). But Windows would add to the cost. So it isn't a good deal if you just want it for the gauge function. However it still might be a decent option if you are interested in more than that. It would be interesting to find out if the Linux based OS will work with TunerStudio. If so that would make biting into the Pi even more tasty.
 
the Raspbian OS
Thanks Jeff. Do you happen to know to what extent the Raspbian OS is comparable to Windows, as far as functioning with other software that will work with Windows? That may not be a valid question - I'm not software literate. But I saw several mentions to using the Pi with the TunerStudio software, however I did not look to see if they were running Raspbian or Windows on it.
 
The 5" screen is a little bit small though.
I think cutting the top of the instrument binacle and cutting the bottom of another one (spares are plentiful) will allow to fit them both together and have them recovered in leather. The instruments will then be a little higher but nothing that will block front view.

I like the idea of the project, but I'm stupid about electronics and I LOVE everything mechanical. So I will stick to stock instruments and if I add any, they will be electric or mechanical ones, but NO electronics.
 
Thanks Jeff. Do you happen to know to what extent the Raspbian OS is comparable to Windows, as far as functioning with other software that will work with Windows? That may not be a valid question - I'm not software literate. But I saw several mentions to using the Pi with the TunerStudio software, however I did not look to see if they were running Raspbian or Windows on it.
Well, Raspbian isn't compatible with any Windows software directly, but Linux has a Windows emulator available to install called Wine.
I haven't tried it as I don't use Windows, but if it doesn't install onto Raspbian a Pi can also run Ubuntu, which does work with a Pi and which is also a free download. Wine is available for Ubuntu but what the performance cost of using an emulator on a Pi is I wouldn't like to say. Also not all Windows software is entirely happy under Wine.

Not sure how much that helps.
 
Thanks again Jeff. I was just reading online about some of the stuff you said.

There is a Windows 10 version for it but not the usual desktop type. And from what I understand that won't be able to run the ECU software (TunerStudio). Emulators may have difficulties also. There is someone that created a "arm" version of Windows 10 that will run on Pi, but it is limited and I think there will be issues using it for the TS software. I say that because there are plenty of problems running TS on real versions of Windows. So all in all I'm not sure what the guys on the TS forum are doing with the Pi - I'd have to read more there.

But in my reading I did come across a couple similar "single card" tiny computers that run Android OS. A Android based computer won't allow full access to TunerStudio, so you won't be able to tune from it. That was the reason for using a tiny computer with Windows (TS is intended to run with Windows). But the Android units can be used to display the digital gauges. However by the time you get the little computer, a monitor, and the little things needed to make it work you are at the same price level as getting one of the more affordable tablets. So really not much advantage I guess.
 
Raspberry Pie can run Windows 10 and is commonly used in IoT scenarios. But it cannot run true x86 Windows apps. I think most ECU vendors have their tuning S/W running in x86 Windows and some are offering virtual gauges running in Android or IOS. I am using my MS 10" Surface (Intel) for settings/tuning only and I see no benefits having it permanently installed to also run the dash S/W. A cheap Android does this job in a good way. My biggest concern is to find a cheap device that fits on the console just below heater levers (I have no radio) and doesn't cover too much of the vents below.
I've been looking around and the best low budget alternative seems to be the Lenovo Tab M7 WiFi 1GB/16GB HD. It costs like 90 USD here in Sweden.
lenovo-tab-m7-wifi-1gb16gb-hd(1011193)_371666_1_Normal_Large.jpg

If you happen to know about other affordable tablets in this size (7-8") please let me know.
 
I've been looking around and the best low budget alternative seems to be the Lenovo Tab M7 WiFi 1GB/16GB HD
Apparently it is just recently being offered in the US, but none are available. The specs for the US version are 7" screen, 1.3Ghz quadcore, 1 GB RAM, and 16GB hard drive. And the price is only $60...if you could get one. I get the impression the price will be higher when they become available again.

Another Lenovo tablet that is available is the M8 FHD. That is a upgraded version of the M8 (8" screen) with a 2.3Ghz octa-core, 3GB RAM, 32GB hard drive, and a enhanced display, currently on special for $128. While the M7 would work fine for the dash gauge display, I think if I were to buy a tablet I would use it for other things as well. So the M8 might be what I'd choose. But the larger screen may be too big for some dashes. And the $60 price of the M7 is extremely good.

I only looked at a brief spec list for the Lenovo tablets, but I did not see mention of features like GPS, accelerometer, etc, which would be useful for full car instrumentation.

I haven't seen anything that compares to those Lenovos for the money. Apparently a couple years ago there was a good deal on a Samsung Galaxy tablet. It was sold through Barnes and Noble to be paired with their e-book services. B&N felt they would make the profits on the e-books and sold the tablet at a very reduced price, despite being the identical full-feature Galaxy tablet selling for much more everywhere else. B&N has since changed to another (non-Samsung) product and the price is higher even though the tablet has less to offer. But back when the Galaxy was available through them that was the hot ticket to use as a dash gauge display.
 
There is a Linux version of Tuner Studio
That might explain the talk about the Raspberry Pi on the MegaSquirt/TunerStudio forum. I did not read through the threads to get all the info, but I assume the goal is to have full access to all of TS's features and functions with a dedicated on-board computer. Having a Linux version of TS would make sense with the Pi being a Linux based OS.

I don't want to hijack the @speedy fiat thread here. This is also being discussed on the "Turbo systems for X1/9's" thread:
 
the M7 would work fine for the dash gauge display, I think if I were to buy a tablet I would use it for other things as well. So the M8 might be what I'd choose. But the larger screen may be too big for some dashes. And the $60 price of the M7 is extremely good.
I've bought the M8 anyway. I compared it with the M7 and the specs are a lot higher. It was just a little bit more expensive, but as you mentioned, it can be used for other things as well. Had a charger with a 90 degree cable in spare that finally became useful.
The size of the 8" screen is perfect:
IMG_20200619_113543.jpg
 
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