Replacement of rear bushings
- Thread starter ward00
- Start date
ward00
True Classic
I always mangle tie rods when removing them. In any case if I went to the trouble of removing the whole suspension arm, it would make sense to replace the tie rod ball joints, but it appears they are integral to the rear suspension arm.
Are the rear tie rod ball joints replaceable? If not, it looks like the only alternative is to buy a new arm, but where does one go to get one.
Bayless lists them but they are out of stock. Any suggestions where to get a new arm or how to replace the tie rod ball joint?
Are the rear tie rod ball joints replaceable? If not, it looks like the only alternative is to buy a new arm, but where does one go to get one.
Bayless lists them but they are out of stock. Any suggestions where to get a new arm or how to replace the tie rod ball joint?
rx1900
1981 X1/9
In theory...yes it can be done with the A arm still in the car and just hanging down. You would need a special tool to do so. Dont know if there was ever a factory tool for this...but a member here ( Bernice ) made one for this purpose. Search on this this forum using "rear bushing tool" and you will get some hits like this one:
Control arm bushing removal/install
I'm in the process of replacing all of the bushings on my '81 X and I'm starting with the rear control arms. I found a thread instructing to drill out the rubber portion, use a hack saw to cut the metal outer shell in two places, and lastly hammer it out. I found it a huge PITA on the first...
xwebforums.com
I suppose you could try to make a tool...or borrow/rent it from Bernice.....
But in practice......i sure would not bother to try. I removed the A arm and did it in a shop press. It took 8 tons or so to press the old original bushing out. I would be afraid the required force would have broken a borrowed tool...and that would have been awkward....
And besides......removing the A arm from the car after removing the inner pivot bolts....will only take another few minutes. And that way you can clean up the arm, re-paint it, and service the ball joint by cleaning out the remnants of the old grease and working in some new grease. That joint has no grease fitting, and was "sealed for life". Bit I'm sure the design life was only 10 years or so. Cleaning out/re-greasing will likely extend the joint's life for many years. Checked the price of a rear ball joint lately ??
rx1900
1981 X1/9
Not sure what you are referring to here ??
On the rear A arm...there is a main ball joint where the arm connects to the upright. That ball joint was part of the arm ( it was riveted to it ) from the factory....and if the ball joint developed play you had to change the whole arm. They were $500+ each back in the day...and have long been NLA. Recently some suppliers ( like Eurosport and Fiat Plus ) are now able to sell you the ball joint portion only of the arm. Still big bucks and a real bear to change. The only other option is to try to find a decent used arm. ....
It is not too tough to disconnect the ball joint from the upright to remove the whole arm from the car. BUT...be sure to use a proper ball joint tool. They are pretty cheap from Harbor Freight/Ebay/Amazon. Do NOT use a "pickle fork" type tool as they will usually mangle the ball joint.
As I said before....IF...your ball joint has no play...there is no need to replace it. Just service it.
By the way...I think you have a Scorpion ? If so..the rear A arm is slightly different from an X1/9 unit...as it has a bracket welded to it for the rear sway bar. The rest of the rear suspension has pretty much the same parts as an X1/9.
Might be handy for you to read my tutorial on a suspension re-fresh.
Suspension re-fresh
Hi folks. As part of my restoration, I decided to re-fresh the suspension of my X1/9. Like many of yours....the car had been sitting for quite a few years. The suspension parts were looking somewhat rusty,and the bushings and boots were old, tired, hardened, and cracked in places. I also built...
xwebforums.com
It pretty much all applies to a Scorpion as well.
Any questions....just ask...
Doug
lanciahf
True Classic
When I did mine, I separated the ball joint after I removed the hub and A arm together. Why? Because there is not enough room with the driveshaft in place. So out came the driveshaft, disconnected the hub from the strut, removed arm and hub together. Hit the ball joint area with two big hammers and out popped the ball joint. I took the arm to my friend with a press and he replaced the bushings. My ball joints were okay so I left them be.
rx1900
1981 X1/9
Correct. As I recall...on my 1500 X1/9 ( I think the Scorpion is the same ) not only is the driveshaft in the way preventing the ball joint from separating fully from the hub....the driveshaft flange on the stub axle is also in the way. And I had to zip off that big hub nut and pop the stub axle out. The upright and hub could have remained on the car.
And yes....I have heard some folks have luck separating the ball joint with two big hammers. Myself not so much......
But no.....I would NOT on the ball joints just...... "left them be". You have faith in 45 year old grease ?? Kinda like not changing your engine oil....
Last edited:
kmead
Old enough to know better
Do you have a tie rod removal tool? They allow you to reuse tie rod ends without damage.
Although not a fan of HB however this tool works well.
3/4 in. Ball Joint Separator
Amazing deals on this 3/4In Ball Joint Separator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
ward00
True Classic
Always did it with pickle fork. Looks like time to invest in another tool. ThanksDo you have a tie rod removal tool? They allow you to reuse tie rod ends without damage.
Although not a fan of HB however this tool works well.
3/4 in. Ball Joint Separator
Amazing deals on this 3/4In Ball Joint Separator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
kmead
Old enough to know better
A pickle fork was never designed to save a part for reuse.
Make sure you lubricate the threads on the separators bolt. These work well. It is amazing how much pressure it requires to properly separate one. It will likely release with a sound like a gunshot…be prepared
ward00
True Classic
Will this tool work both on the ball joint at the end of the suspension arm as well as the tie rod ball joint?
The reason I used a pickle fork is up to now the joints always needed replacement, which currently appears not to be the case.
The reason I used a pickle fork is up to now the joints always needed replacement, which currently appears not to be the case.
A pickle fork was never designed to save a part for reuse.
Make sure you lubricate the threads on the separators bolt. These work well. It is amazing how much pressure it requires to properly separate one. It will likely release with a sound like a gunshot…be prepared
rx1900
1981 X1/9
I suppose I cant speak to the HF tool Karl referenced to...but I have a similar tool. It worked on both front and rear ball joints and tie rods on my X1/9.
Geez Karl...how can you not love Harbor Freight ??
kmead
Old enough to know better
That is a good question, I have never taken that primary ball joint apart. You don’t want to damage that ball joint, replacing them is expensive and very difficult.
There is also the old trick of using two hammers, one to each side of the knuckle right at the ball joint which is often difficult to pull off and Bernice will box my ears for suggesting it.
ward00
True Classic
AN
ward00
True Classic
I assume that after grinding down the rivets for the main rear ball joint, 2 bolts can be used to hold the ball joint assembly in place instead. That way the ball joint can be removed form the suspension arm without damaging it.
Am I correct?
Why did they use rivets when they could use bolts?
Am I correct?
Why did they use rivets when they could use bolts?
rx1900
1981 X1/9
Yup....100% correct !!! Although ( never tried it myself ) it has been said that those rivets are a real bear to remove. Not just a matter of grinding the heads off.....as the shanks of the rivets are also very much expanded in the holes.....real tough to pound them out !!! There are also a couple of small welds holding the joint to the arm that must be ground away. There are a couple of threads here about doing it. All the more reason...aside from the cost of new ball joints....to service your existing ones as preventative maintenance !
The assumption there is that for safety reasons Fiat or Lancia wanted zero chance of a critical bolt becoming loose. Many other manufacturers of that era did the same thing. Some would also say it then also allowed them to sell you you a $500 replacement arm instead of a $100 ball joint.
kmead
Old enough to know better
That is the understatement of the year.