Replacing both Brake and Clutch Master Cylinders

Tavalin

Tavalin

Florida Mike (again)
Well, I pulled the trigger and purchased both brake and clutch master cylinders through MWB along with hoses and new brake light switch.
Now, how hard is it taking the steering column out?
Remember, pictures done in crayon preferred, southern public school educated and a former US Marine :)

What else should I do while in that deep under the dash?

V/r, Mike
I still need to get to the U-Pull It here. Just no time at the moment.
 
Steering column out is easy.
- Remove plastic shroud around bottom of column (top shroud may not come off until the column is out); that's just a few Philips screws reached from below.
- Undo four nuts mounting the steering column to the underside of the dash. Pay attention to how the square tabbed washer thingies on the pair of studs farther forward go on - these are designed to shear in a collision so that the wheel will yield instead of impaling the driver.
- Undo either of the U-joints in the steering column, lift the whole thing out, set it aside.
The rest of the master cylinder replacement is easier if you remove the seat as well.
 
put some marks on the u-joint junctions (paint) so when you go to put it back on you get it in the right spot (or your steering wheel will be off center when you're going straight and drive you nuts)
you can probably (and should probably) leave the wheel right on the column
When you put it back in, consider adding a couple/5 washers (may need slightly longer bolts), to the two forward bolts, it will give the column some tilt and some more room for driver's legs under the wheel.
 
This is great. Thanks.
I have not received the parts, yet but now I have some confidence that I can do this. I am going to buy some white out for the paint. It is durable and easy to see in darker places.

As for the longer bolts and washers. Sounds great but I am only 5' 8" and fit the driver's seat as is. I will have think about it though.

This is why like owning an X1/9... Everyone here.
Thanks again, Mike
 
Been There, Done That





Note the painter's tape, anywhere I might have to grab to get in or out, with brake fluid on my hands. HINT # ??? Vinyl/Latex Gloves.



The things nightmares are made of.

If you can find "The Red Bull Project", in the old files, there's play-by-play of my first time around and more pix.

Don't rehang the Master/Strut assembly until you fill and test the systems for leaks.
I had to get some "Flare Gaskets" for a couple of my Hard lines. Now the *#&%#* Soft "Feeder" lines are leaking. :wall::wall::wall:
 
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Before You Touch Anything

Get yourself a good set of Metric "Line Wrenches". A 6-8 & 10-12mm Combos should be all you need, but who knows what you might find. The last thing you want to do is round off those hardline fittings and you might have to apply some Torque to get them to reseal with the new parts.
 
Yes good line wrenches are a must. (had to use vice grip's on mine to and now I need to replace the lines)

(they were already rounded off from a PO)
 
Soak the sleeve nuts with penetrating oil for a few days before any attempt to remove them. This often helps with removal.

Good flare wrenches are not going to come from Craftsman these days as their easily available tools are of inferior quality. Best value (cost-vs-functionallity) for quality tools today come from Taiwan like TopTul.

There is once chance to loosen a stuck tube nut (10mm on the exxe for brakes, 12mm or 13 for the clutch) if the nut does not loosen on the first try with the flare wrench, STOP before rounding it off. Resort to properly placed vise grips on the hex flats with a strong grip before proceeding to attempt loosening.

Know the tube nuts used on the exxe are M10 x 1.25 long which is not easily or commonly available in the US. Replacing them is not difficult if a good bubble flaring tool is available, the tube nuts are a different story.

Do seriously consider replacing the feed line to the cylinders (EPDM hose or similar, petro rated hose will NOT work) and the clutch flex hose near the gear box as hoses do not last forever.

Basic wrench sizes on the exxe is 7mm, 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm, 22mm, 24mm, 30mm. This is the once very common DIN standard.


Bernice



Red Bull 78 said:
Get yourself a good set of Metric "Line Wrenches". A 6-8 & 10-12mm Combos should be all you need, but who knows what you might find. The last thing you want to do is round off those hardline fittings and you might have to apply some Torque to get them to reseal with the new parts.
Click to expand...
 
OMG!!! What am I getting myself into??? Anybody going to be traveling through Omaha anytime soon?
I purchased what ever Mat told me too, included the clutch and brake hoses.
Now, my confidence is waning a bit. This seems like I just need to take my time and do it right once.

I am going to look for some line wrenches. I will stay away from Craftsman per Rupunzell's (Bernice) advice.

I will start the tear down so I will know what I am going to be getting into.

Thanks everyone. And to think I am scared to mess with the timing. This seems to be a bit worse.

V/r, Mike
 
Just spend a good hour or so reading through old threads here and make some notes, write down some steps in order, have your tools handy and make a day of it.
If you're going to do the supply hoses, I got EPDM hydraulic spray hose from a tractor supply place for cheap, I don't recall the ID off hand but it's here somewhere, it's 1/10 the price of the "automotive" stuff and it's the same stuff and it's on the shelf near you no doubt.

Don't forget to spray those fittings with PB Blaster or similar as early before the job as possible (now) and once a day until D-Day. Also if you can, you can put vise grips right over the "line wrenches" AKA "flare nut wrenches", I think that's another name for them, I got a set of metric ones in the "bin" at NAPA, pretty cheap as I recall, don't know name brand but they've been working well.
 
Tavalin said:
OMG!!! What am I getting myself into??? ....
Now, my confidence is waning a bit. This seems like I just need to take my time and do it right once.
Click to expand...
Don't let us scare you - it's really not that dire. I no longer use my line wrenches for anything except turning the nuts after they're broken loose - start with the visegrips from the beginning to get the nuts started.

If you do mess up and round off a nut so badly you can't reuse it (do remember that the visegrips work in both directions), you can buy them from FedhillUSA, Midwest, or FiatPlus... a pain having to put the project on hold while you wait for them to arrive and then reflaring the end of the line, but not the end of the world.

Just go slow, and if you find yourself getting frustrated, come back here and vent. (Copious and creative swearing also helps, and as an ex-marine you may already be familiar with this concept.)

And to think I am scared to mess with the timing. This seems to be a bit worse.
Click to expand...
Not worse, just different. The timing is a logical procedure that makes perfect sense once you've worked out how it's supposed to work, and the only bit that's just between you and the car with no outside help is the magic twist that gets the belt over the tensioner. The masters are momma-poppa simple how it's supposed to work, but working upside-down in the cramped space means that a lot of time you know where something should be but it's not easy getting it there.

When you go to put everything back together, and especially when you reinstall the flare nuts.... Use anti-seize. It makes the job enormously easier next time around. Even if you have no intention of ever going back in there, the next person to work on the car will thank you, and there is no better way to accumulate good karma.

If you have the least doubt about the hoses from reservoir to masters, now is the time to replace them as well. I prefer to use the EPDM-rated Tygon tubing because it is transparent (easy to see and purge the bubbles) and insanely flexible, but jvandyke's suggestion is works well also.
 
Speedo Cable Routing Mod

On thing that I wish I would have done when I dropped the pedal box to replace the masters and refurb the pedal box is to do a mod on the routing of the speedo cable.

The speedo cable runs thru the cowl/scuttle area using the same hole as the three hydraulic hoses. The drawback here is that if you ever have to change the speed o cable outer sheath, you have to work around the hoses, not an easy task.

I think I would try very hard to find a place in the cowl to drill an additional hole, big enough to allow the knurled end of the speedo cable sheath to pass thru, so that the cable sheath could be changed without having to deal with the hydraulic hoses. This would also have the advantage of a straighter routing path of the speedo cable, putting less stress on it and the fragile plastic clip ends.
 
Jvandyke and EricH, thanks for the advise and sometimes I do get frustrated and vent like a Marine but I have to remember that there are a lot of children around the neighborhood. Not good to be flailing about cursing and throwing tools around. Would not be setting a good example.

Dan, I am going to look into the speedo cable. Would be nice to do something while everything is torn down.
At the moment, it is 17 to about 28 degrees out and about 42 in the garage (if the door has not been opened). I going to wait for a little warmer weather.

Thanks again, Mike
 
Not that difficult to get did, take the time required, don't rush and study the numerous previous post on cylinder replacement on xweb via search.

As for Craftsman. Vintage genuine made in USA Craftsman is fine. Craftsman tools were made by Easco in Ohio aka Moore Drop forge and have the =V= log on them. What has happened in recent years, Sears along with Craftsman has been pushed to extremes by the investors who own then to produce ever increasing profits causing Craftsman tools into a death spiral of quality and usability. =V= Craftsman tools are genuine chrome plated, real USA quality. The newer and current easily available Craftsman is nickel plated or worst and often absolutely inferior to what Craftsman once was. The poor tolerances result in poor fit causing slippage and damage to the fastener. This is the difference between fastener removal with minimal damage to stud fastener with severe fastener damage.

For the folks who own vintage Craftsman tools take care of them and they will continue to last and work fine. If a replacement is needed be prepared for a significantly lower or absolutely inferior quality replacement or no replacement as Craftsman has discontinued many of the tools once offered.

As for timing, it's no different than any other petro motor with a timing adjustment.


Bernice



Tavalin said:
OMG!!! What am I getting myself into??? Anybody going to be traveling through Omaha anytime soon?
I purchased what ever Mat told me too, included the clutch and brake hoses.
Now, my confidence is waning a bit. This seems like I just need to take my time and do it right once.

I am going to look for some line wrenches. I will stay away from Craftsman per Rupunzell's (Bernice) advice.

I will start the tear down so I will know what I am going to be getting into.

Thanks everyone. And to think I am scared to mess with the timing. This seems to be a bit worse.

V/r, Mike
Click to expand...
 
Everything just arrived from MWB. A lot faster then expected. Thanks Mat.
Now, I need to wait until after the weekend due to the temps dropping into the single digits.
I will be studying everything master cylinder related until then.
Thanks everyone. I will post more when I start the replacement. I will try to post photos as I do the work.
Again, thanks, Mike
Talk again soon.

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I changed the oil in the Miata the other day, in my new heated garage. I almost cried it was such a beautiful thing to work on a car in comfort when it was cold and icy outside the door.
Anyway, good job on getting stuff lined up.
 
You'll need six stainless steel hose clamps (use the ones for fuel injection, they are kinder to the hoses) to replace the rusty ones in place now.

You'll also need general paint supplies like wire brushes, sandpaper, primer, and black semi-gloss paint to spruce up your pedal box components.

You'll need some white lithium grease for general lubrication of the pedal pivot rod in the white plastic cylinder and the pedal-to-master pivot pins.

Allow time to clean the sludge out of the bottoms of the two fluid reservoirs.
 
Dan Sarandrea (Phila);246233]You'll need six stainless steel hose clamps (use the ones for fuel injection, they are kinder to the hoses) to replace the rusty ones in place now.

*Full band clamps like these from McMaster Carr (SAE, J1508). Measure the hose OD, add some for hose expansion when pushed over the fitting before making a size choice.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-hose-clamps/=10k5uxc

*Or 'ear clamps' like these, proper crimp pliers should be used.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-hose-clamps/=10k5wl8

You'll also need general paint supplies like wire brushes, sandpaper, primer, and black semi-gloss paint to spruce up your pedal box components.

*This is a really GOOD idea and thing to do.

You'll need some white lithium grease for general lubrication of the pedal pivot rod in the white plastic cylinder and the pedal-to-master pivot pins.

*White lithium grease tends to dry out causing a host of problems over time. Red Line CV-2 red moly work fine or similar NGLI 1 or 2 moly synthetic grease.

*Do check the pins on the end of the pedal that fit and pivot on the cylinder push rods as this is a common wear point, Excessive slop causes problems with pedal feel, pedal travel and vague pedal in general. This pivot should be cleaned and lubricated with synthetic moly grease once pin and push rod is verified in good condition before assembly.

*Do take apart the plastic pedal bushing for cleaning and check for wear. This is a common problem area that causes squeaking pedals as they are moved. Lube with Red Line CV-2 when all is verified in good condition and clean ready to be put back together.

*Replace any questionable nuts, bolts and associated hardware. There is little if any benefit or advantage to putting a cleaned up and nice parts bak together with rusty old hardware. Threaded stuff is all DIN-ISO-ANSI standard metric threaded for this.. Except for the threads on the brake light switch and pedal stop which is M12 x 1.5, a lesser common metric fine thread. Our shop rules, original threaded hardware gets tossed and replaced with similar or better. Low cost problem prevention.

Allow time to clean the sludge out of the bottoms of the two fluid reservoirs.

*Don't be floored at how much gunk is at the bottom of these fluid reservoirs. After decades of likely the same fluid in the system when the exxe left Bertone, that fluid is more than likely to be gooo...

*The newer combined front & rear brake fluid reservoir is prone to cracking at the top. Check this, if it needs replacing, this is the time to do it. The clutch reservoir should be a single container. These tend to be pretty problem free.


Bernice
 
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