Doing a quick search for 45x60x3mm bearings does not show any hits.
Huss, look for "AXK4560". The 3mm dimension is just for the bearing, each hardened race (flat washer) is an additional 1mm, so the total bearing assembly is 5mm thick (if the flat races are used...they would not be needed with custom machined parts).

Jovani, I think you missed two key words in my post; "IF you have a lathe and WISH to make custom inserts". ;)
I agree that in most cases a simpler approach is preferred. But there are those of us who like to take things further (also no offense intended). :)

My sketching over your drawing was just to help relate the concept, not a detailed blueprint. The parts could house the bearing easily; see the included photos of an existing design that does exactly that.
As for the large metal washer needed to prevent the rod from penetrating the aluminum, not true. I run coilovers with much stiffer springs and the narrow tops (of the coilover) are directly against the aluminum without any washers (of any size), and no penetration of the aluminum has happened.
I think my attempt to use the existing drawing to illustrate things may have caused confusion. But I certainly understand wanting to have things as reliable as possible. :)

All in all you have come up with an excellent idea. The use of Ford Focus mounts is a great alternative to the stock ones. This equals several other ideas that have come from this forum, utilizing substitute parts to improve the original design. Thank you again for sharing it with us.
 
DrJeff, of course those of us who want to go to next level and have a lathe can do not just that, but million other things. At work I have lathe, yoder hammer, english wheel, stretcher/shrinker, tube bender, furnace, you name it, and I hand make parts for multimillion dollars vintage collectable Italian cars, BUT the point of my post is to provide free idea, description and tested result for cheap and better alternative for hard to find over priced stock mounts for those who do not have lathe, funds etc. Otherwise I agree with all IFs ans WISHES :) And don't get me wrong, I appreciate and prefer guys like you, sharing thoughts and trying to improve, although disagreements are inevitable.
 
I had played through what Jeff suggested as well when you posted your sketch. Dependent on the right bearing diameter (which I didn’t check for) and of course needing to turn some aluminum parts to create the races and centering elements.

5E08D821-77F1-46AD-836E-D8C48BC9F705.jpeg
 
I agree with what you are saying Jovani.

Karl's drawing helps illustrate a portion of my thought better. The area circled in red (below) shows a way for the aluminum pieces to incorporate the thrust bearing's races and O-ring seal. The only difference was I thought maybe items numbered "1" and "2" could be incorporated into one piece, as shown with the blue lines. Keep in mind this will change the blueprint for the parts, and this is once again only a rough sketch to give the idea - not a correctly proportioned/dimensioned detail drawing. I guess no real advantage other than reducing the number of parts, and perhaps increasing the stability of locating the upper race. But it could also make the gap between the upper and lower portions of this assembly further apart by a couple millimeters (the distance between the blue lines) - therefore increasing the ride height difference slightly.
By the way Karl, the needle thrust bearings are available in pretty much any diameter you desire so no problem there.

5E08D821-77F1-46AD-836E-D8C48BC9F705.jpeg
 
Karl and DrJeff, trust me, all configurations were already thought of and ruled out, either excess of parts needed to be custom made or increasing the height of the front happens. If I go back to your suggestions ("back" because those were the first ideas to be dropped) , it is much easier to use provided Focus bearing and only make one bottom support piece, 5mm taller than on my top drawing, which shows the interference area. Same if you position needle bearing high against the rubber, only one bottom support needed. Third, 65x85x17 bearing is perfect, but cost $57 each. Fourth, neither of these solutions allow off-center strut axle line deflection due suspension travel. So, I offered the best solution in my thread without going through other possible designs. It is cheap, easy for everybody to do and dynamically better engineered (by FIAT, not by me, I only confirm). Ford's outer bearing position has reasons (front heavy car) but bearing one side overload due suspension travel is way more than Fiat's design, just look at my drawings and think what parts combination has to deflect together to keep even load on the added bearing in both cases and you'll get answers.
 
Jovani, we do not disagree with your ideas at all. We just enjoy playing around with the creative process thinking of various options. You will notice this is true with every idea that passes through the forum. So please don't take our discussions as challenging your design process, we like what you have done and find nothing wrong with it. :)

The point you make about allowing for off-axis movement is a critical one. ;) Different front strut designs deal with this in various ways. Fiat's design was to place the pivot (steering washer) toward the center line (vertical axis of rotation) and the rubber "cone shape" of the top mount allows this to swing from inside to outside (horizontal axis of movement) as the suspension travels. The idea being the rubber was compliant enough to allow for that off-axis movement. That is why the stock top mounts become deflected off center over time; the load of the off-axis movement pushes the center rod to one side at an angle. And unfortunately the rubber portion of the Fiat mount becomes hard and non-compliant with age. So the stock design really only works best when everything is fresh and new. I think this is the main reason the stock replacement aftermarket top mounts fail so quickly, the rubber compound is not up to the task of the side loading.

Given the importance of this off-axis movement, when adapting the Ford mounts the center "filler" piece (that goes into the lower cup on the mount) should be contoured to fit the void correctly (as Jovani did). It is the area where this movement takes place in this set-up. So making the aluminum filler piece to properly fit the shape allows the off-axis load to be evenly transferred to the rubber cushion. Not having a correctly fitting filler piece will focus all of the load into a couple of small points and dig into the rubber, decreasing its life significantly. So really to make this conversion work best (notice I said "work best", not just to "work") the filler piece should be custom made on a lathe as Jovani has done. It could be made from aluminum (as done above), delrin, nylon, or similar material. Over the years we have found that many (most?) of the members on this forum either have such part-making capabilities or know where to get it done, and are willing to do so in order to have the best possible outcome for their projects. If someone is considering a custom top mount conversion (being a critical component on the vehicle), they should expect at least some degree of custom work to be included. The "stack of washers" idea is far from ideal (honestly I've never like using a stack of washers for any type of sleeve/spacer application). While it can be done the "easy" way, that might not be the wisest choice considering the safety aspects with a major suspension component. And I only say this out of concern for the well being of our members, certainly NOT in opposition to what has been said previously in this thread.

Jovani, perhaps view this as an marketing opportunity, to make the parts necessary to properly do this conversion for those that do not want to make (or have made) the pieces themselves. And once again, thank you for coming up with this excellent concept. We really appreciate everything you have offered. :)

I will also note that IF someone WISHES to utilize the Ford thrust bearing, or any such variation of it (as described earlier), the same off-axis movement can be accomodated in the same way. By allowing enough space between the custom made components and the top mount, and having a proper fitting "filler" piece in the upper cup, the off-axis loads will be transferred to the rubber portion of the mount and handled just as it will with the narrow bearing design. But yes, this will increase the height of the front suspension by a few millimeters.
 
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Jovani, we do not disagree with your ideas at all. We just enjoy playing around with the creative process thinking of various options. You will notice this is true with every idea that passes through the forum. So please don't take our discussions as challenging your design process, we like what you have done and find nothing wrong with it. :)

The point you make about allowing for off-axis movement is a critical one. ;) Different front strut designs deal with this in various ways. Fiat's design was to place the pivot (steering washer) toward the center line (vertical axis of rotation) and the rubber "cone shape" of the top mount allows this to swing from inside to outside (horizontal axis of movement) as the suspension travels. The idea being the rubber was compliant enough to allow for that off-axis movement. That is why the stock top mounts become deflected off center over time; the load of the off-axis movement pushes the center rod to one side at an angle. And unfortunately the rubber portion of the Fiat mount becomes hard and non-compliant with age. So the stock design really only works best when everything is fresh and new. I think this is the main reason the stock replacement aftermarket top mounts fail so quickly, the rubber compound is not up to the task of the side loading.

Given the importance of this off-axis movement, when adapting the Ford mounts the center "filler" piece (that goes into the lower cup on the mount) should be contoured to fit the void correctly (as Jovani did). It is the area where this movement takes place in this set-up. So making the aluminum filler piece to properly fit the shape allows the off-axis load to be evenly transferred to the rubber cushion. Not having a correctly fitting filler piece will focus all of the load into a couple of small points and dig into the rubber, decreasing its life significantly. So really to make this conversion work best (notice I said "work best", not just to "work") the filler piece should be custom made on a lathe as Jovani has done. It could be made from aluminum (as done above), delrin, nylon, or similar material. Over the years we have found that many (most?) of the members on this forum either have such part-making capabilities or know where to get it done, and are willing to do so in order to have the best possible outcome for their projects. If someone is considering a custom top mount conversion (being a critical component on the vehicle), they should expect at least some degree of custom work to be included. The "stack of washers" idea is far from ideal (honestly I've never like using a stack of washers for any type of sleeve/spacer application). While it can be done the "easy" way, that might not be the wisest choice considering the safety aspects with a major suspension component. And I only say this out of concern for the well being of our members, certainly NOT in opposition to what has been said previously in this thread.

Jovani, perhaps view this as an marketing opportunity, to make the parts necessary to properly do this conversion for those that do not want to make (or have made) the pieces themselves. And once again, thank you for coming up with this excellent concept. We really appreciate everything you have offered. :)

I will also note that IF someone WISHES to utilize the Ford thrust bearing, or any such variation of it (as described earlier), the same off-axis movement can be accomodated in the same way. By allowing enough space between the custom made components and the top mount, and having a proper fitting "filler" piece in the upper cup, the off-axis loads will be transferred to the rubber portion of the mount and handled just as it will with the narrow bearing design. But yes, this will increase the height of the front suspension by a few millimeters.
So, all aspects of Focus mount conversion have been covered in this thread. The best part is that it is done and tested, 600 miles now. There a few hard to describe small details about both front and rear mounts, all interested doing it please PM me. I also made some spare filler pieces for folks with no access to lathe or high quality material. And here is a final touch, covering the two original unused holes. The pictured cover/washer cost only 75cents and little bit of filing. Will be painted later.
20180923_201731.jpg
 
Thank you again for the excellent idea. :)

That cover/washer looks great, please tell us what it is...something from the store, or did you make it from scratch?
 
Thank you again for the excellent idea. :)

That cover/washer looks great, please tell us what it is...something from the store, or did you make it from scratch?
It is from my favorite auto parts store - Home Depot. Can't find photo, but the hint is enough ;)
 
It is from my favorite auto parts store - Home Depot. Can't find photo, but the hint is enough ;)

I’m with you there. I use plumbing and other repurposed items on my cars when I build stuff. I used sink strainers in the tailpipes to kill the drone from the Magnaflow muffler & 2.5-2.25” piping .
 
Ordered a pair (KYB SM5607). I noticed today the rears I replaced two years ago when I did the bodywork are shagged already - strut washer pushed inboard/off center.
 
Huss, look for "AXK4560". The 3mm dimension is just for the bearing, each hardened race (flat washer) is an additional 1mm, so the total bearing assembly is 5mm thick (if the flat races are used...they would not be needed with custom machined parts).

Hardened washer is absolutely needed for the thrust bearing faces to run against...later Fiats and Lancia's use this style of thrust bearing, and all use a hardened washer above and below the bearing race.

SteveC
 
The pictured cover/washer cost only 75cents
It is from my favorite auto parts store - Home Depot. Can't find photo, but the hint is enough
20180923_201731.jpg


Yesterday I was at Home Depot. I looked through several departments for a piece like this with no luck. And nothing made of metal was even close to $.75. Please provide more information on what it is. Thanks.
 
Looks like your garden variety sink strainer turned upside down, that's had a hole saw taken to it, to remove the center section. Just a guess.
 
I thought the same thing. So I looked at the sink strainers while I was at HD. But I did not see any that large. And they were around $6 - 7 and up, not $.75....unless that was a typo for $7.50?
 
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I'm pretty sure "with what I've seen on this forum" we could easily start a new category named "Guess what this part was made from".
 
I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks of HD as a good local parts store!

Thanks Jovani for initiating this idea/thread. I don't anticipate implementing this design in the very-near future, but I certainly catalog nice ideas for later projects! I'm also very glad to see the two lines of thought..the "all-out, I can build anything" design & the "KISS" approach. Best serving our enthusiast community means a good design charge (my opinion) will serve both with a basic concept for the latter & options for the former. Good stuff here!
 
I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks of HD as a good local parts store!

Thanks Jovani for initiating this idea/thread. I don't anticipate implementing this design in the very-near future, but I certainly catalog nice ideas for later projects! I'm also very glad to see the two lines of thought..the "all-out, I can build anything" design & the "KISS" approach. Best serving our enthusiast community means a good design charge (my opinion) will serve both with a basic concept for the latter & options for the former. Good stuff here!
HD is where I got the top mounting strap for the coolant tank. Bent to shape and painted Rustoleum Sunrise Red.

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I thought the same thing. So I looked at the sink strainers while I was at HD. But I did not see any that large. And they were around $6 - 7 and up, not $.75....unless that was a typo for $7.50?
It is a square metal electrical mounting plate wit the round raised opening. Cut the square edges to make it round, drill three holes for the Focus mount studs to go through and also grind/cut away two small tabs in the inner round opening. Sorry, no photo. Price may be a dollar depending on store. Sink strainer and all other stuff have been checked and ruled out for various reasons.
 
Thanks. The other day I looked through the electrical section, but there are so many parts it would have been easy to miss. I'll check again the next time I'm there.
 
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