Snorkel for intercooler?

I think the pulling air up though one and out thought the engine Cover would be the most efficient.
One aspect that I've been considering is when the air is drawn up from the engine bay (below) and through the top mounted (horizontal) intercooler (e.g. with a updraft fan), it is pulling HOT air (from the hot engine bay) across the IC (and the fan motor). That will have a negative effect of the intercoolers ability to do its job, compared to pushing cool external air from above down across it. It will also shorten the life of the electric fan. No idea just how much difference it would be, just thinking of various factors involved. Although it might not apply here, on my setup the large aftermarket oil cooler is mounted under the intercooler. So if the air is pulled up from below, it will be passing the hotter oil cooler first and then through the IC. But going downward will push the cool air past the IC first and then to the hotter oil cooler. This is much like how a intercooler is mounted in front of a radiator on front engine cars, passing the cool air through the cooler IC first, then the hotter radiator.
 
One aspect that I've been considering is when the air is drawn up from the engine bay (below) and through the top mounted (horizontal) intercooler (e.g. with a updraft fan), it is pulling HOT air (from the hot engine bay) across the IC (and the fan motor). That will have a negative effect of the intercoolers ability to do its job, compared to pushing cool external air from above down across it. It will also shorten the life of the electric fan. No idea just how much difference it would be, just thinking of various factors involved. Although it might not apply here, on my setup the large aftermarket oil cooler is mounted under the intercooler. So if the air is pulled up from below, it will be passing the hotter oil cooler first and then through the IC. But going downward will push the cool air past the IC first and then to the hotter oil cooler. This is much like how a intercooler is mounted in front of a radiator on front engine cars, passing the cool air through the cooler IC first, then the hotter radiator.

The air pushing down against the rising air will only give you a net gain of the difference in the pressures. This supposes that there is any usable pressure rising from below.
Also, unless the inlet air into the fan is taken totally from outside air with no "engine" air recircing up into the fan after it goes thru the oil cooler the cooling effect will be severely compromised.
Looks like you are better off putting the intercooler below the oil cooler and duct air from under the car through the intercooler and then through the oil cooler and upward/out through the fan. This lets the heat from both rise up out of the engine bay even when the car and fan are off.
 
This supposes that there is any usable pressure rising from below.
Good point Gene. I did not want to take this too far off topic, but in my case the bottom of the engine bay will be closed off, so no air pressure from below. And the mid bulkhead (between engine bay and trunk) as well as the rear taillight panel have been opened up (with a large grill at the back). This will allow a direct exit path to the low pressure area at the back of the car. Plus some ducting added in the engine bay to direct the airflow where desired. I'm of the opinion the low pressure above the engine lid is not significant to begin with, and with these changes it won't be an issue. So the large Spal fan pushing the cool outside air downward will not only cool the IC and oil cooler, but will push the hot engine bay air out the back of the car. This will also move the high turbo heat (at the back side of the engine block) away from everything else. With this forced flow of circulation from above, through, and out the back, the heat will not be able to rise up out of the engine bay and back into the inlet flow (continuous fan). I realize this is not for everyone, but I have defined specific goals for this project and I think this is the better approach to meeting them. When it all comes together (eventually), I'll take some temp measurements and see what happens. It would be easy to change things if needed.

Janis (OP) also has a somewhat similar arrangement on his X. His radiator is rear mounted (in the truck area), with a fan blowing the hot air rearward. So he might have a similar direction of overall airflow as just described (I guess maybe I'm not that far off topic afterall).
 
Just looking a this. Front mount inter cooler placement usually requires the air intake shroud being larger than the face of the inter cooler. I do not see how you can get sufficient air with a snorkel. A rear mount air to air would suffer a lot of heat soak. Have you considered an Air to water? Or some sort of supplemental cooling like water methanol injection for the intake and the inter-cooler.
 
If You are talking about air movement in midengined car’s engine bay, it won’t be offtopic here.
I’m not competent at this so am just reading what all of You are saying.
At my poor understanding it is like this:
•area of air which goes over car is from nose height to top of the windshield in the width of the roof
0,9mwidth x 0,65m height =0,585m^
•if I put a snorkel right behind the roof in height 8cm and width of the roof, I guess that will catch about 25%of that air 0,585x0,25=0,1465m^
•area of the intercooler is 0,060475m^
In my understanding it will get 0.1465/0,06=2,425496688741722 times more air if it would be mounted in the front of the car. If ducting is sealed is there any matter if air is moving up or down in the snorkel.
 
Just looking a this. Front mount inter cooler placement usually requires the air intake shroud being larger than the face of the inter cooler. I do not see how you can get sufficient air with a snorkel. A rear mount air to air would suffer a lot of heat soak. Have you considered an Air to water? Or some sort of supplemental cooling like water methanol injection for the intake and the inter-cooler.
Air to water... hmm. That might work. Where would you mount the radiator for it?

Odie
 
my understanding it will get 0.1465/0,06=2,425496688741722 times more air
Hummm, I calculated 2,425496688741723, not 2,425496688741722. :D


If ducting is sealed is there any matter if air is moving up or down in the snorkel.
I don't think so for the most part. There may be some advantage to hot air moving upward, due to its natural tendency to rise. But that is if it isn't being pushed or forced in any way, only 'natural' flow. When you add things like the movement of the air as the car moves through it, or a fan, then I think there are bigger influences at play.

One possible problem with sealing the ducting is the heat can get trapped inside it is there isn't always enough movement of it to circulate through the ducts. That leads to 'heat soak' and things escalate out of control quickly.
 
Who knows how much air flows up though the engine compartment and out of the engine cover? You could use a manometer, or little pieces of yarn taped to the top of the engine cover to get a feel for what's going on. Or, you could just leave the engine cover unlatched and see if the air pressure will lift it up (mine do).
If you don't mind loosing the frunk space (which is quite a bit of space to hold stuff) you could move the gas tank to the frunk and put the intercooler where the gas tank was. Duct air in from the bottom and the out the top?
 
Did the second gen MR2 use an intercooler for it's motor? If so, where is it located. Relevant because it too is a mid engine car.
 
8735a_Cruise_Control_Carousel.jpg
Did the second gen MR2 use an intercooler for it's motor? If so, where is it located. Relevant because it too is a mid engine car.
https://www.turbomr2.com/MR2/HowTo/Engine_Upgrade/Removal/Removing_the_3SGTE-01.htm


but looks like alot of people add a better one and just top mount it.



odie
 
looking more into how MR2 people do it. looks like going form the sidescoop is how. I am htinking if I went from the side scoop and it doesnt cool well enough, I could either swap to the faza style scoops that look like they direct more air in, and/or add a fan to the backside of the intercooler to pull air through the scoop.
But to the point to the thread, I dont see any snorkels on MR2's that seem to feed an intercooler.

Odie
 
I’ll finish sewing carpet and then write how I could try to make ducting from sidescoop to intercooler than to radiator(it is in trunk) and make an exit to the rear end.
In hot conditions radiators fans could help to suck air through the intercooler
image.jpg
 
make ducting from sidescoop to intercooler than to radiator(it is in trunk) and make an exit to the rear end.
I like that approach. Especially if you can open up the side scoop to allow more air to pass through it; if you look the inside (behind the scoop) they are rather restricted. The body work has a couple of small openings the air must pass through. I will be opening up those inner panels (there is room to make them much larger), and increasing the opening on the body with larger scoops on the outside.
 
Could be just a side mounted scoop over the stock side air intake would make more sense than an overhead snorkel. The FAZA style wheel flares on my car for the rear flares include a scoop that feeds the side opening.
 
Just by looking at the shape without doing any CFD analysis I would say with the abrupt windshield and the drop off to the rear of the roof that there is a lot of air stalled there. I imagine that the a side scoop would have much more clean fast air.
 
Wait a minute, radiator in the trunk?
How will you get the massive amounts of air through the radiator that it needs when the engine is under load?
 
Wait a minute, radiator in the trunk?
How will you get the massive amounts of air through the radiator that it needs when the engine is under load?
radiator in the trunk above the muffler is not a problem even in rushhour, tested it that one day when car was on the road
 
Thanks all for discussing this :) a lot if good information to think of.

At the moment radiator is horizontally and pushing air upwards. I could put it vertical and make a sealed ducting from one or both sidescoops, with intercooler somewhere between.
Also could put a snorkel where is B pillar.
On friday am moving out of garage :D
so most likely this IC thing will be made on next week, as have to finish things that has to be done till that.

When speaked with electrician ~ a year ago (has big expierience with tuning turbocharged cars, and has seen on dynos what matters) sugested just to make a sealed ducting from sidescoop without any fan, but he liked snorkel idea, I guess more of the looks :D

*radiator can’t be moved back to frunk, there is no more grill
*gas tank can’t be moved to frunk, because of streetlegal laws, as it will be too obvious.
 

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