SOLD - Vintage Hilborn-Travers mechanical fuel injection system

Frank L. Di Gioia

Frank L. Di Gioia

True Classic
Probably right up there with a PBS twin cam motor or cast dry sump system it this goodie. 8-port head with vintage mechanical fuel injection.
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Complete except for magneto. The front timing/pump cover IS NOT fabricated (welded up) but a one off casting! Header is for a mid engine application or needs a 180 U-bent for rear engine applications.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Very cool Frank. I doubt there are many of those around! ;)
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Hi Jeff,
It's the ONLY one I've ever seen in person since 1969-70. I have seen pics of some in Europe with German fuel injection with a name similar to
"Klugfishen" but that's butchering it quite a bit. Ideal for a Vintage D-Sports racer as it's a little "too much" for the street......but then if you want to be the only kid on the block.
 
That German company made lots of mechanical injection systems, including some production car street versions. But that was before electronic injection came along. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelfischer

I believe this one you have is a US company? I associate the Hilborn injection systems with big V8 drag car alcohol engines.

I've always been intrigued by mechanical FI systems. Lets get it running and see what it does! When things get back to normal I'll come over and help. It would be fun to play with. :D
 
What's below the four exhaust tips? what does the throttle plate look like?

Hilborne injection is generally associated with alcohol fueled engnes, there is no sequential or timed firing like the Kugelfischer that I can see, so definitely not suitable for the street, The usual "adjustment" for mixture fuel adjustment with a Hilborne is very crude, it's a metered disc (the pill) one orifice size controls everything. If it's a "full flow" system, they are pretty much only good for WOT

Interesting front cover though, must have been cast specifically for te OHV, is the large hole in the cover with the two studs for crankcase ventilation or associated with the fuel system?

Interesting quirky vintage (except for the chrome exhaust tips) item.

SteveC
 
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fiatfactory said:
What's below the four exhaust tips? what does the throttle plate look like?

Hilborne injection is generally associated with alcohol fueled engnes, there is no sequential or timed firing like the Kugelfischer that I can see, so definitely not suitable for the street, The usual "adjustment" for mixture fuel adjustment with a Hilborne is very crude, it's a metered disc (the pill) one orifice size controls everything. If it's a "full flow" system, they are pretty much only good for WOT

Interesting front cover though, must have been cast specifically for te OHV, is the large hole in the cover with the two studs for crankcase ventilation or associated with the fuel system?

Interesting quirky vintage (except for the chrome exhaust tips) item.

SteveC
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The large hole was for a magneto. Being a Fiat it only takes a milling machine and a lathe to fit a new one one. That and a few days spare time. I assume by "exhaust tips" you refer to the 6" inlet stacks. Originals are impossible to find but standard American bath sink drains are the exact same diameter. Available in chrome or polished brass, all lengths. They're temporarily held on with tower type (also era correct) hose clamps. Thumb screws will be replaced with lock nuts. There is a one piece throttle shaft of stainless steel with butterflies slotted in. Absolutely no radial slop. The front casting is very well designed and cast. The 8-port fabricated head is the work of an accomplished welding shop. That and untold hours of porting. It would be an easy job to adapt to a PBS 8-port head as there is little bore difference/location. The best and highest use for this would be on an American SCCA D-Sports racer in vintage racing. Next to the PBS twin cam and a cast dry sump this is the rarest item I've had for an 850.
 
The only time I have ever seen Hilborne injection on a Fiat engine was for a dirt oval speedway car (like a midget racer) that had been built in the early 1970;s for an under 1000cc class, was also the first time I'd seen an 8port 850 head (which had also been fabricated - by some old guy in Italy apparently the story was).... I was quite young at the time, maybe 15, so was 40 years ago.

That also had magneto ignition and was alcohol powered.

Do you know the provenance of the parts at all? Did they come from a track racer or maybe a similar type of speedway midget?

SteveC
 
My next door neighbor was a big time sprint car racer. He used small block Chevys with Hilborne mechanical injection. He also had a gear driven cam setup which was used to replace the timing chain for more precise timing. I think he was getting about 700 - 800 hp out of it in a car that was much lighter than an X. Those cars had a clutch and no transmission. They race on dirt ovals.
 
fiatfactory said:
The only time I have ever seen Hilborne injection on a Fiat engine was for a dirt oval speedway car (like a midget racer) that had been built in the early 1970;s for an under 1000cc class, was also the first time I'd seen an 8port 850 head (which had also been fabricated - by some old guy in Italy apparently the story was).... I was quite young at the time, maybe 15, so was 40 years ago.

That also had magneto ignition and was alcohol powered.

Do you know the provenance of the parts at all? Did they come from a track racer or maybe a similar type of speedway midget?

SteveC
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I don't know the provenance beyond the last buyer/seller. He was in Utah or Colorado, not sure. He got everything I have as part of a "All or none" purchase. I checked back for the magneto but it wasn't part of the lot. I've cleaned everything up and helicoiled where needed on the head and cover. Strange as the exhaust studs are 5/16"x28 but are 8x1.25mm going into the head. It was used for some time without any damage beyond one new valve seat. That probably came loose during the welding of the intake ports. I worked with Chevrolet Corvair motors converted to Weber/Zenith Porsche carbs. which had the same seat problems unless pinned. The intake mounting lugs are a little fragile but solid, same as the Corvair heads. My guess was also Midget or some type of 1/4 mile drag racing. Another possibility is early boat racing. The original PBS 8-port heads were cast for Hydro racing. Small world in that my Dad and his brothers ran a two car Midget team in the 1930's and 40's on the East coast of the US. They ran Fords as the couldn't afford the high roller Meyer Drake motors. They used to hire all the later famous Indy car drivers when they were starting out. Not shown is the magneto hold down clamp making it clear there was a magneto. The drive gear is also missing.
 
5/16 fine to 8 x 1.25 is a carby mounting stud for some aftermarket alloy manifolds (like Lynx here in Australia) they screw the UNF thread into the alloy side and use a nut on the 8 x 1.25....If you need some I have packets of them. Alfa Nord 4's do a similar thing on the exhaust, fine thread on one end (8 x 1.0) and regular 8 x 1.25 on the other... I think (memory) the coarse thread went into the alloy, but it's been a while...

boatracing, yes that would be another (and IMO the most) likely application I hadn't thought of, run at WOT all the time, and being anti clockwise rotation would suit a prop from the flywheel end (usually with CW rotation motors they run off the front of the crank)

segue to another thought... boat racing with two 850 based engines, one CW rotation and one CCW rotation (I know this would mean a custom prop) mounted each side at the rear, to negate the rotational torque twisting the hull in the water...


SteveC
 
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Regarding the large cast timing cover with integrated magneto mount & the rotary gear pump; PBS Engineering made these for use on 850-powered hydrofoil racing boat engines (back in the day, I used to watch the hydrofoil racing over at Marine Stadium on Alamitos Bay in Long Beach, California). They were also used on 1/4-midget racing engines. The gear pump was originally used mainly for a dry sump oiling set-up.

These were not a one-off casting - I have 3 of them (well, 2.5 as one is missing the gear pump unit).

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Here's what it looks like with the magneto installed:

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Jeff Stich said:
Regarding the large cast timing cover with integrated magneto mount & the rotary gear pump; PBS Engineering made these for use on 850-powered hydrofoil racing boat engines (back in the day, I used to watch the hydrofoil racing over at Marine Stadium on Alamitos Bay in Long Beach, California). They were also used on 1/4-midget racing engines. The gear pump was originally used mainly for a dry sump oiling set-up.

These were not a one-off casting - I have 3 of them (well, 2.5 as one is missing the gear pump unit).

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Here's what it looks like with the magneto installed:

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Thanks Jeff,
I was hoping you'd have info on what I've got. As usual the info is along with pics, COLOR non the less. Did the dry sump use a General Motors power steering pump? If yes I had one years ago from Dr. Knee's stuff in Oregon. I arrived in Springfield a few months after his widow sold his collection. I saw part of the Abarth 1300 and 1600 motors.....
 
Sold to Michael Feyl (Scuderia Topolino, Germany) for eventual use in one of his PBS D-Sports race cars. Fuel injection only, I'm keeping the 8-port head for my '67 Spider....will run dual 32mm DCOF's modified for dual use.
 
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