Steering rack question - vagueness & slop

[tjc]

Now that I've completed my strut replacement and will start the bushing and ball joints soon, I thought I'd focus on the steering vagueness I've been noticing while driving straight-ahead on the highway as I've been to and from work, lately.

While jacking up the front of the car, I noticed some play in the steering when grabbing the tire and moving it back and forth. Either wheel can be moved (toe) in and out about 1/8", yet there would be no corresponding movement from the other wheel, nor from the steering column. Therefore, I thought that this would be either a large lash issue in the actual rack or the inner tie rods are worn. One or both of which is, I believe, resulting in a vagueness.

My question, is there any way to know for sure if it is the rack or the inner tie rod ends that are the culprit without having taking out the steering rack from the car? And how are the rod ends attached to the rack (it doesn't seem to be explained either in the technical nor the service manuals)?

Thanks.

 

[budgetzagato]

Look at the rack...

You can undo the rack boots and inspect the inner tie-rod ends. Also study the rack mount bushings for looseness.

 

[tjc]

You can undo the rack boots and inspect the inner tie-rod ends. Also study the rack mount bushings for looseness.

What am I looking for in the inner tie-rod ends? In other words, how are the inner tie rods connected to the rack? Are they threaded? I can't seem to find a clear diagram that shows this.

As for the rack bushings, I have checked the torque on the rack mounting bolts and they're fine, I'll check the bushings now, thanks!

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Yes, inner tie rod ends are threaded to rack...

What am I looking for in the inner tie-rod ends? In other words, how are the inner tie rods connected to the rack? Are they threaded? I can't seem to find a clear diagram that shows this.

They terminate in a ball, and there is a threaded collar that holds the ball captive and screws it to the rack end.

This collar will be "staked" in place the same way you stake an axle nut, so be sure to unstake it before you try to unscrew it, or you will risk messing up the threads.

Pete

 

[tjc]

They terminate in a ball, and there is a threaded collar that holds the ball captive and screws it to the rack end.

This collar will be "staked" in place the same way you stake an axle nut, so be sure to unstake it before you try to unscrew it, or you will risk messing up the threads.

Pete

Great. That's much clearer. Thanks for the advice! One more question, this can all be done with the rack in place?

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Depends what you are doing...

Thanks for the advice! One more question, this can all be done with the rack in place?

If it's your outer tie rod ends (most likely, IMO) then no need to remove rack.

If it's your inner tie rod ends (not very likely IMO) then you can probably still do it with the rack in the car.

If it's your steering rack bushing, then the rack will definitely need to come out.

If it does turn out to be the inner tie rod ends, then carefully examine your rack bellows to see if they are leaking or have let dirt/grit into the rack. If they have, get the rack out of the car and check it for play and further damage.

It's only 4 nuts (2 u-bolts) holding the rack in, and is not a big deal to remove. Just peel the carpet back a bit in the area above the gas pedal, and you will see the u-bolt ends and their nuts. Same thing on passenger side.

Pete

 

[tjc]

Thanks.

BTW, the steering rack boots are ripped/disconnected (at least on one side) and the tie rod ends look in good shape.

 

[Pete Whitstone]

If the rack boots/bellows are compromised...

Thanks.

BTW, the steering rack boots are ripped/disconnected (at least on one side) and the tie rod ends look in good shape.

Then I would definitely pull the rack for a thorough cleaning/relubing/rebooting.

Pete

 

[tjc]

I planned to do just that this winter. But, I just got so sick of the lousy on-center feel that I'm ready to look further into it now.

My big fear is that it's actually the rack itself that's the culprit and not the inner tie rods and, therefore, the whole assembly needs to be replaced (at great $$$).

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Well, you can certainly prove or disprove that...

I planned to do just that this winter. But, I just got so sick of the lousy on-center feel that I'm ready to look further into it.

My fear is that it could be the rack itself that is the culprit and not the inner tie rods and, therefore, the whole assembly needs to be replaced.

With the rack still in the car. Just check for play between the rack end and the drive pinion - get a buddy to wiggle the steering wheel while you hold the rack end. Have the buddy steer almost all the way right or left (depending on which side you are checking) so the rack end pokes out of the rack housing.

Pete

 

[dwightand]

I just rebuilt the rack on my 128 coupe, it only required the purchase of one tool, a tie rod separator. The outer rod ends were tight but I replaced them since the boots were shot, mine had the one piece inner ends which are also staked. I would check if the staking is still holding, if not the nuts could loosen, causing the inner ball joint to have slop. The movement in my steering was caused by the bushing in the end of the rack, it was totally gone, but I had one in my box of spares from the PO. I would think the rack and pinion should be ok, mine has 130,000 miles and the teeth looked undamaged, despite the split open rack boots. Took two weekends between soccer games and graduations.

 

[Rupunzell]

I have yet to see a truly dead Fiat steering rack. The only truly dead one I have come across is one that is bent from a crashed car. The rack and pinion gears are induction hardened and the pinion runs on roller/ball bearings with a hardened rack gear tensioner.

Even the ball joints hold up pretty good.

The most common failure is the plastic bushing that tends to pop out of the housing end, retaining tabs broken off or just plain cracked-wore out.

Do remove the rack from the car and do a rehab, the difference will amaze you.

The steering rack used in this Lancia is basically the same one used in the x1/9 except for the ball joint ends...which are longer in the series one Monte. The ball joint ends changed again on the series two Monte.

If you're curious as to what the innards typical innards of this rack looks like:

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/12184/

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/12238/

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/15092/

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/15093/

Bernice

I planned to do just that this winter. But, I just got so sick of the lousy on-center feel that I'm ready to look further into it now.

My big fear is that it's actually the rack itself that's the culprit and not the inner tie rods and, therefore, the whole assembly needs to be replaced (at great $$$).

 

[tjc]

Thanks all! This is totally clear now and it looks like I can do it in a weekend (if I have it completely free, which has been rare, lately).

I have already received all the soft goods for a rebuild, though I do not have spare outer tie rod ends. I do plan on getting a set as I found that tie-rod separators that I can rent at the local auto parts shop do not fit fiat tie rods (even their small tools). A pickle fork is the only thing that worked (at least on my 124 Spider), but that pretty much ruins the old tie rod end dust boots.

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Pretty sure you can get...

but that pretty much ruins the old tie rod end dust boots.

new outer tie rod end boots from Obert/Fiat Plus. I think I ordered a set in the last year or so, when I rehabbed the rack on my Scorpion.

He had the correct rack bellows too.

Pete

 

[tjc]

If you're curious as to what the innards typical innards of this rack looks like:

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/12184/

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/12238/

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/15092/

http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/15093/

Bernice

One thing I couldn't see in the links above was how the inner tie rods are attached to the rack. In other words, if the rack itself is fine and it is the inner tie rods that have play and are the culprit, are they adjustable/rebuildable or can they only be replaced.

 

[tjc]

Few questions on the rack rebuild

I finally got to rebuilding the steering rack. I removed it from the vehicle and it's sitting on my bench. I un-staked the inner tie rod socket caps as best I could:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/tjcusumano/Lancia/Steering/IMG_20121108_203847.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/tjcusumano/Lancia/Steering/IMG_20121108_203851.jpg
But, the caps won't budge. They're supposed to just unscrew, right? I don't want to put too much torque on it because I was afraid I'd break or bend something in the rack, itself. Does anyone know a trick to get these caps off?

Second question...I thought the root of my vague steering was the slop between the inner tie rod ball and its socket cap. Here's a video of what I saw (view on mute):
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y1.../?action=view&current=VID_20121108_203508.mp4
Am I correct in my assumption that this is too much slack? It's about 0.020" of movement on each side. Is the answer to just tighten the cap down? If so, how much? If not, do I need to replace the inner tie rods?

Finally, it looks as if the grey plastic rack bushing is still in good shape (there's only one, right?). The ears on the bushing are still in place on and and there doesn't seem to be any damage to it. Am I correct in assuming I should just leave well enough alone or should I change it out anyway? What are some other items I should check on the rack?

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Yeah, way too much slack...

Second question...I thought the root of my vague steering was the slop between the inner tie rod ball and its socket cap. Here's a video of what I saw (view on mute):
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y1.../?action=view&current=VID_20121108_203508.mp4
Am I correct in my assumption that this is too much slack? It's about 0.020" of movement on each side. Is the answer to just tighten the cap down? If so, how much? If not, do I need to replace the inner tie rods?

It's been forever since I took one apart, but I suspect the inner tie rod end was designed with some kind of "liner" under the cap, which has since disintegrated. Either that or the wear has just lead you to the point you are at. I would get it apart and see if it's feasible to just replace the caps. But I don't know if anyone sells the caps separate from the tie rod. Or for that matter if anyone even has any NOS tie rods left.

As far as getting the caps off, several days of soaking in PB Blaster and some light heat (from a heat gun, not a torch) should do it. Lightly tap the cap with a small hammer a lot to break the bond.

Personally I would replace the bushing, just because it would probably be at least 10 years before I had the rack out again, and the plastic part may be dead by then.

Pete

 

[tjc]

Thanks for your advice. I've also posted this on Lancisti just to get all the advice I can as quickly as I can because right now I have the time and some $$$ to do this (a little later in the winter might be a different issue).

Anyway, I have a few more questions:

Bayless seems to have tie-rod inners in stock. Are the left and right inner rods identical?

What is the easiest way to replace that plastic bushing? Are there any tricks? It looks pretty far in there, that's why I was hesitant to replace it if it looks good.

Are there any other items on the rack I should check out before spending money to rebuild this one? I can snap more pics, if necessary.

Thanks again,
T. J.

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Not sure if ends are identical...

Bayless seems to have tie-rod inners in stock. Are the left and right inner rods identical?

What is the easiest way to replace that plastic bushing? Are there any tricks? It looks pretty far in there, that's why I was hesitant to replace it if it looks good.

Are there any other items on the rack I should check out before spending money to rebuild this one? I can snap more pics, if necessary.

I would think they are but I don't know for sure. If Bayless does not make a distinction between left and right then I would assume they are identical.

Typically the plastic bushing is broken up/driven out and replaced with a bronze or aluminum bushing. If you have access to a lathe it's simple to machine one, or TMH may have them in stock. Bernice also made up a set a few years back but I don't know if she has any left.

Other than that, there is not much else in a rack to go wrong. If your boots were compromised for any long period of time and dirt got in there, then the clearance between the pinion and rack could have worn. But if that's the case, it's a throw-away, I don't think that can be adjusted/repaired.

Pete

 

[tjc]

I would think they are but I don't know for sure. If Bayless does not make a distinction between left and right then I would assume they are identical.

Typically the plastic bushing is broken up/driven out and replaced with a bronze or aluminum bushing. If you have access to a lathe it's simple to machine one, or TMH may have them in stock. Bernice also made up a set a few years back but I don't know if she has any left.

Other than that, there is not much else in a rack to go wrong. If your boots were compromised for any long period of time and dirt got in there, then the clearance between the pinion and rack could have worn. But if that's the case, it's a throw-away, I don't think that can be adjusted/repaired.

Pete

I guess I should have mentioned this before, but I already have new boots as the old ones were torn to begin with. How can I tell if the rack had been compromised because of contamination due to the torn boots? Where would I see/test for a problem in the rack? Again, I'd like to see if this rack is even worth rebuilding before I spend the time to do it.

I had also already purchased a new plastic bushing (along with new rubber isolation grommets for the mounts), so it seems a shame to destroy what looks like a good bushing just to replace it with the same, but if I do, is it a matter of just pressing in the new plastic one? Do I need a press if I'm not going with a brass replacement or would it install some other way (i.e., without special tools)?