Stick shifter play

I replaced the rubber ring in the shifter ball pivot (after cleaning and lubing with a silicone based grease so as not to affect the rubber ring), and I also squeezed the "fork" at the end of the shift lever (or used some washers or shim stock, it was a few years ago) to close up the tolerances. I think it improved feel and function somewhat.

I've always maintained that if someone could come up with a Ferrari-like shift gate for our cars, it would be a big seller.
Thanks for the feedback.

I made a "gaited" shifter for one of my Mk1 VWs. But honestly it is not ideal to adapt an existing design to another type of mechanism. So it really doesn't work as well as I'd like. I think for the X the biggest benefit will come from replacing the lollipop with a true U-joint. Also adding some sort of support/pivot for the long shift shaft, similar to what other makes of car have.
 
Wondering how tight should shift linkage bolt be and how much should wavy washer be compresed for best setup
 
This is my method, undo the two bolts that attach the lollipop to the long shift rod. Tighten the wavy washer bolt until there is no relative rotation movement between the lollipop and the trans shift arm, but, the lollipop assembly can rotate around that bolt. It's admittedly a fine line and I focus on eliminating the relative rotational movement which usually means the lollipop will still rotate around the bolt but with a bit of resistance. If I don't do this on my car I have a hard time getting reverse and a harder time getting 5th.
 
I've gotten rid of the somewhat convoluted wavy washer setup for the shifter to transmission connection, and replaced it with a typical bolt, nut, and washer combo. I don't know if something (meaning either of the mounting surfaces being under correct thickness) is worn on mine to make this the case but:

The new "bushings" I have tried numerous times have been setup such that there is play between the two parts, even with the bolt absolutely cranked down. It may be something worth looking into, validating that the linkage bushing bolt spacer wavy washer fastener thingy (whatever the name is, I don't know, I'm tired) is not still allowing a ton of slop even when fully tight.



The solid mount I did definitely increased shifter feedback and feel in the front to back direction, but unfortunately did little in the way of shifter stiffness left to right. It still feels like stirring a pot of watered down marinara with a spoon made of soft cheese.
 
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I had a new shouldered bolt that needed shimming as the wavy washer wasn't enough. I think even on a great day these shifters are not super wonderful.
 
I've done a similar thing on worn but not failed bushing joints when I'm not replacing the parts with new; add a shim to take up the slack.

At some of my fastener suppliers I've seen metric "wavy washers" in different thicknesses for a given size. They don't specify the thickness, and no single supplier offers a selection of thicknesses for the size, but from supplier to supplier there can be a difference in the thickness. I suppose if a replacement bushing kit included a wavy washer that is thinner than the original spec then it may allow more play? Honestly I'd have to go look closer at all of it to see if that could be possible.

However I believe @carl hit it on the head: "these shifters are not super wonderful". :D
 
My next trick is going to be to tighten the wavy washer bolt a half turn at a time, regardless of play and swinging motion and see what happens.
 
I know the x shifters and shift rods are different a little through the years. On my car it has a shift rod with an integral pin that goes through a bushing in the bottom of the shifter itself.
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In my car there was a lot of slop in the shifter and it rattled while cruising. I rebuilt the shifter with a new cup from MWB but I also pushed out the steel bushing in the bottom of the shifter and made a new one. With a tight fitting bushing at the bottom of the shifter I have minimal side to side play. Even a few thousandths of an inch slop in that joint can give you several degrees of motion in the shifter before it starts to actually move the transmission.
 
on my newly acquired car, I see a lot of left/right movement, but the fore/aft is pretty tight. No trouble finding gears, though. Maybe best to just leave it as is?
 
on my newly acquired car, I see a lot of left/right movement, but the fore/aft is pretty tight. No trouble finding gears, though. Maybe best to just leave it as is?
I believe that only left and right play points to the connection of the shifter to the shift rod in the tunnel. Someone else should correct me, but I believe the latter cars had a bolt that connected the two. Maybe you could get in there to see if it's loose? If you had front to back play that could also be from other parts in the shift linkage, so I think they would be okay, but it can't hurt to get under there.
 
There are two issues I focus on with the X linkage and ability to find all the gears.
1, eliminate all slop in the linkage from the shift lever rod to the selector shaft coming out of the gearbox. As noted, even minor slop will make a big difference.
2. make sure the longitudinal shift rod in the tunnel is not hitting anything in the tunnel for 1-2 and 5 shifts. You would be surprised at the amount of hoses, wires and brackets there are in that tunnel. Even a too long seat belt receiver bolt can hit the rod and keep it from full motion. On my last two Xs I had to restack the components on the shift rod to lollipop joint as the rod was too low in the circular hole where it passes out the back of the tunnel and was hitting the side of that hole.

While true that any slop in fore/aft shifting is not nearly as critical, if you don't have the shift lever adjusted vertical in neutral, you may not get enough forward or rearward motion to get gears fully engaged.

Do what I say, not what I do. Fifth is a bitch to find in my car and I treat it like a four speed. Reverse is not too bad but not perfect.
 
I'll add my comment to this thread, however there have been several other threads that relate to it.

Today I noticed something relative to the "lollipop" bushing/bolt affair that I don't recall being mentioned before. I came across a box of used lollipops and decided to take a closer look at the bushing "adjustment" as we've been discussing. I realized that in addition to the bushing and/or bolt wearing out, the hole in the lollipop (where the bush and bolt go) will also wear out - see pic below. Of three lollipops that I compared; one had a hole in fairly decent shape (diameter and condition) and would likely function fine, one had a hole that was worn a bit larger diameter (than the 'good' one) as well as a bit ragged looking and would likely allow a bit of play (very difficult to adjust properly), and the third had a hole that was seriously worn to the point of being elongated oval shape as well as very oversized diameter and would be impossible to adjust even with everything else new.

The point is the adjustment of the bushing is also dependant on the condition of the hole in the lollipop where it goes. And that hole can easily become unusable....even if the rest of the lollipop (e.g. rubber) is good. So be sure the check this when attempting to adjust things.

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The shift mechanism for an X (and 128) is rather elegant in it's directness and simplicity but is let down by a poor quality lollipop. I would like to see one made of thicker metal and a stronger bolt (19) less prone to stretching.
 
I'll add my comment to this thread, however there have been several other threads that relate to it.

Today I noticed something relative to the "lollipop" bushing/bolt affair that I don't recall being mentioned before. I came across a box of used lollipops and decided to take a closer look at the bushing "adjustment" as we've been discussing. I realized that in addition to the bushing and/or bolt wearing out, the hole in the lollipop (where the bush and bolt go) will also wear out - see pic below. Of three lollipops that I compared; one had a hole in fairly decent shape (diameter and condition) and would likely function fine, one had a hole that was worn a bit larger diameter (than the 'good' one) as well as a bit ragged looking and would likely allow a bit of play (very difficult to adjust properly), and the third had a hole that was seriously worn to the point of being elongated oval shape as well as very oversized diameter and would be impossible to adjust even with everything else new.

The point is the adjustment of the bushing is also dependant on the condition of the hole in the lollipop where it goes. And that hole can easily become unusable....even if the rest of the lollipop (e.g. rubber) is good. So be sure the check this when attempting to adjust things.

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I would not be surprised if this is yet another (if you'll pardon the pun) case of being let down by inferior replacement parts.

I have a feeling that the original FIAT items would have had case-hardening in the vicinity of the pivot hole you mention, seeing as how it is a wear point, in constant use as the car is driven, and unlubricated. I say that because I was reminded recently being surprised that FIAT used case-hardening in another location that I would not have thought would need it, that being the frunk latch (someone had posted a question about where to mount speakers in the footwells and I posted about what I did---in the process of modifying a frunk latch I discovered at least one of its parts to be case-hardened).

We would expect rubber-based parts to have some sort of finite service life, especially if in a location that could get soaked with oil, so having to replace a lollipop due to rubber deterioration should not be any more surprising than say having to replace a timing belt. But someone just ordering a lollipop off the internet would have no way of knowing whether the replacement was properly case-hardened during manufacturing, assuming of course that my supposition that the originals were also case-hardened, is true.
 
In my cars the wave washer is thrown away and replaced with a normal flat washer that has the center reamed out to fit the shoulder bolt shank. I also drill 2 6mm holes in the lollipop to compress the rubber very slightly with 6mm bolts. All rotational play has to be eliminated.
 
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