Supper charger anyone?

Hackerjay

Daily Driver
My first post here, I have posted a couple of times in the X/120 forum. I have had on the back burner a project that once I have a major service on my wife's Mondial this weekend I intend to start. Some back ground on my self, my first car was a 1970 850 spyder while in high school in the 1970's. Perhaps this is why I ended up spending 20 years as a mechanic ;) Back in the 1980's I made a lot of money parting out 850's having parted over 50 (they had little value then and were under a rust recall as such I know a bit about these cars) my first of many 600's I traded an 850 hard top for while in high school. With 2 rear engine fiats and the finances of a high school kid I at least had a chance that one would be drivable. My next 600 I traded a weber 45dcoe for. Flash forward 30 years and I started playing around with these cars again. Built the 850 I had always wanted (sold) and owned several 600's and a few multilpla's One of my employee's really liked my 600's so my wife and her jumped in the company flat bed, drove nearly 1000 miles and picked up a 1957 600 ($250) that she started to fix up, stripped it for paint, I had it running great for her then she developed very bad arthritis and had to go on SSI disability, she simply can not work any longer on it so my wife purchased the car. Also some where along the line I saw an add on craigslist for Fiat parts from some one in Portland Oregon who was moving. He had a little 124 stuff but mainly 600, 850 and most importantly had done an Abarth 1000GT and a 750 double bubble. He really did not know what all he had nor what he wanted for it. Nor did I. We came up with a price site unseen that was a bit more then I wanted to pay and a lot less then he could have go for every thing selling it piece meal over time. As such 10 years on I have not sorted it all. The parts filled the deck of my flat bed truck and the entire back seat of my 4 door F350. I do know I have some trick Abarth parts, at least 1 head I can not identify and more. So where I am at today. I start on the drive train for the 600 on Sunday. The plan is to run a 903 block (unless some one has a 1050 cheap) bore it as needed to match the 1050 head (yes I know it will be offset bore's and should result in around 962cc) and this is why the post. I saw on amazon supper charges that are rebuild for smaller engines for about $200. I suspect these are used in Japanese "K" class cars. Any one ever tried one of these? Yes I do know the changes to the oiling system I will need to make as well as many other changes. (worked at two different Fiat shops over the years) but I think if I keep the boost down I should be able to keep the engine in one piece and get some where in the 80hp range. I also own a small factory as such have the equipment to make any parts needed to get the supper charger hooked up. I will run one of my spare 600D transmissions. Has any one ran the 5 speed conversion made by Bacci Romano www.bacciromano.com that is sold for twice their asking price by Mr. Fiat? I am running the Bacci Romano 5th gear ratio gears in my Scorpion that the Monte Hospital use to offer. Am very happy with the quality. As to brakes, I intend disks on the front and to run 600D Multipla rear drums as I will other wise loose the parking brake when I go from the 600 trans to the 600D transmission. The D will be a parking brake on the rear brakes and the Multipla drums are much larger. I prefer drum brakes on a street car on the rear over disks ( BTW I do have a rear disk conversion for an 850 that came with the parts I picked up) as the parking brake usually works better then a disk brake parking brake. As to why use the Multipla brakes, not only are they a lot larger, I have several sets so may as well use them, never tried this configuration as never could find Multipla brakes.
Jay
 
600's are cool.

Being CW rotation opens up many possibilities, the best one being the use of late 127 engine block / crank. If you have a bunch of nice bits I'm sure you'll have something to swap / trade for a good used std bore block, you may need to look overseas, but it would be the best starting point.

You get a spin on oil filter and the later full flow oiling system, plus a solid crank with no centrifuge, mushroom headed lifters. If you offset overbore with a set of A112 elegant / Fiat Panda 4 x 4 965cc pistons, then you retain the stock rods and gudgeon pin size, 67.6mm is the most popular sizes of these pistons I sell to do the job and you get 985cc. Sure it's not as nice as an A1122 1050 motor with it's longer stroke / lighter rods / nicer crank etc... but it's a chunk of change to find a core these days... a 127 / uno / lots of stuff late 903cc 100GL engine cores are a dime a dozen.

You get to use a stock Fiat 127 water pump... nice neat fit... gets rid of the engine power sapping cooling fan and gives plenty of room to run a thermo fan on the rear mounted radiator.

127 block.jpg127 block a.jpg

the 1050 head is really no different from a flow perspective to most of the 100GL and 100GBC heads, the main and really only difference is the combustion chamber offset to match the bores / head gasket...valve sizes etc are still the same. These little engines respond well to some head flow work. Slightly bigger valves are available from a later model "fire" engined 903 which was very similar construction, a little different in the stem length, but nothing that a little care with rocker geometry doesn't fix.

SteveC
 
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I saw on amazon supper charges that are rebuild for smaller engines for about $200.
Is the super charger you saw something like this:

They come in two sizes that I know of. They've been installed on motorcycle engines, which flow a lot of air. So I imagine it should be a decent size for your project engine of around 1000cc. I looked at it for one of my X1/9 projects but wasn't sure if it had the capacity for a 1500cc engine. I decided to go with a turbo instead. There was a guy several years ago that added a turbo to a Fiat 600 engine and it was a screamer. A blower would be better than a turbo in my opinion, but a bit more involved to mount.
 
Thank you every one for your comments. Steve I am sure I will be asking questions of you and perhaps buying from you. Even being in the USA some times in the past I have had to purchase from Australia such as when I was playing with 4X4's I ran a Suzuki LJ20V, pretty much no parts in the USA, much better supply in Australia. For my other Italian cars I find with exchange rates buying from the UK often makes sense. I export to Australia as such am use to working with time zones and such.
Dr. Jeff, Yes this is the super charger I was thinking of. Thinking of going with the smaller one. More because I can then any thing else. Some further back ground, I made my living with these cars and owned and drove them 30+ years ago. As such my experience was from a time before the 1050 and the 903 with the oil filters but from a time when their were many companies building really trick parts for these cars such as complete heads however finding this stuff now is not easy nor cheap as it has been out of production for so long. Earlier this year we moved my company to working 4-10's as such now I have one extra day a week and have burnt through most of the honey do list and can move onto car projects I have had for a while. I own a small factory building sidecars for motorcycles as such I have about 20 employee's some of them really talented. And as we do almost everything in house it means I have a fiberglass shop, upholstery shop, sand blasting, painting and powder coating and a very well equipped fabrication shop with CNC milling machines, plasma table, tubing benders, notchers, rollers, lathe's, pretty much anything I might need. One of my former employee's who I laid off (he was just to painfully slow getting any work done) owns a couple of non running X/19 that it is his dream to get going, I suspect that it may never happen however he tells me that he owns molds for fender flairs and the Abarth type radiator front end for the 600. I have not seen the molds, he left on good terms, still stops by from time to time and I am sure would be very happy to make these for any one who might want them. My self I do not want flairs and if I go to a front radiator, I already have the fiberglass abarth the front end. I hope not to have to resort to this to cool the car. I am hoping that some of the modern radiators that are more efficient along with an electric fan and proper ducting will work with the radiator more or less in the stock location will work. I do intend to change the heater system. I have always said being in the PNW part of the USA that the fiat runs a windshield fogger rather then defogger. I have a complete heater assembly from an 850 that I intend to run.
Jay
 
It's been many years ago, but I had a good friend in central Calif named "Jay" that was very much into the same cars as you have mentioned in your writings. At that time he was still operating a business his dad started called "Abarth West" and he ran a really well prepared 600 in vintage racing. Between having the same name and similar vehicles/interests, you have reminded me of him - no idea what ever happened after he closed the shop and moved.

I envy having your facility to work in. At one time I had a automotive customizing business with a similar shop and equipment. Sure wish I still had access to all of that now that I have more time available.

It will be interesting to hear how your projects go.
 
I use the AMR500. Don't bother with the 300. The AMR500 at 10 pounds of boost and the compression ratio lowered slightly makes for a sweet car. Go full EFI while you're at it. I use the Suzuki motorbike front callipers {Tokico} and the stock drums on the back.
Most of the stuff is in the thread below.
Pheasant Wood 2.jpg
 
Well, I got as far as sorting parts to figure out which core pieces to start the build with. More over the next few weeks. I had not thought of motorcycle calipers for the car. I like the idea, I was just going to buy the stuff from Mr Fiat that allows retaining the 12 inch wheels, or if I find the right 13 inch wheels go with 850 parts however this got me thinking. I could turn down the rotors from an 850 (New they are under $10 and I new ones that have rusted due to poor storage) To fit in side the wheel then go with motorcycle calipers that I can spilt and widen. More then likely I would use Brembo FO9 calipers as I buy from Brembo as an OEM manufacture parts are cheap.
 
It's been many years ago, but I had a good friend in central Calif named "Jay" that was very much into the same cars as you have mentioned in your writings. At that time he was still operating a business his dad started called "Abarth West" and he ran a really well prepared 600 in vintage racing. Between having the same name and similar vehicles/interests, you have reminded me of him - no idea what ever happened after he closed the shop and moved.

Jay Armstrong's still around. A friend mentioned Jay's place got burned out in one of the big CA fires in the last year or so, & shortly after that he suffered a (non-lethal) heart attack. I can probably get his contact info for you if you want to get in touch with him? ;)
 
If you have 12-inch wheels at the moment you hopefully have the 850 sedan gearbox. Fitting 13 inch wheels will give you a much more usable final drive ratio. I machined the stock front discs down to suit the Tokico discs but you can space them out if you like.
The first thing you should do is read Ditchdiggers pages from page one and take notes. https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/70073/1971-fiat-sedan-resurrection-starts

Also, John Edwards{RIP} book on racing the Fiat 850 has plenty on the brake conversion. John has plenty of Youtube videos still up as well, check out Fiatnutz and JO-EL channels.
 
Right now the car is a totally stock 600 complete with the 633cc engine and original gear box with the parking brake built onto it. I am building the drive train up out of stuff I have laying around doing things that years ago I could not have even dreamed of doing. Owning CNC machines has opened up a lot of possibilities. The only 850 parts I will be using is an engine block along with an Abarth oil pan as the 850 pan sits crooked when in a 600 as the 850 transmissions sits in crocked. The transmission I will be using is from a 600D, I will be rebuilding it and converting it to a 5 speed. No idea what final drive options I have to work with as I have not gotten that far. Lots of parts of boxes to dig through. Scanned the linked thread and will take the time to read it in depth latter. Looks like lots of good information. I know what we would have done 30 plus years ago when I worked at a performance oriented Fiat shop (performance apex) but over the next 30 years I moved on to other cars and am just now getting back into these cars although about 10 years ago for a couple of years I did play around with a pair of 850 sypders and prior to that an 850 racer, a few Multipla's and other assorted Fiats and Lancia's however I kept these cars more or less stock drove them for a while, filliped them at a profit and moved on. I tend to buy odd ball stuff that others are afraid to fix enjoy them for a while and move on. The 600 I am building I intend to do up as a car to keep. Thinning the fleet down to cars I intend to keep. Only down to one more "flipper" a 1967 Jaguar 420 4.2 4 speed with over drive.
Jay
 
The project stalled for a while, back on it. Picked up a 1050 engine off of craigs list not sure the hp but it does have an Abarth oil pan and valve cover so it could have once been in an Abarth. Dug around in my spare parts and found a 600D transmission with an Abarth 8/39 ring and pinion gear, The exchange rates are so good right now I have on order the 5-speed conversion from classic performance out of Italy. They have been very helpful with quick email responses in English. The kit with shipping is only about $2100. Also ordered a front disk brake kit for 13 inch wheels as well as needed hose and piping to convert over to a dual circuit master. Off of craigslist I also found a set of Chromadoa wheels that are being sand blasted and painted. The car body has had all rust repairs and is about to get a coat of primer. Building this as a good streetcar. Anyone know if the modern electronic ignition distributor on a 1050 will fit under the hood of a 600? While I do have original Abarth hood prop supports I do not like the look. The car is being painted back to the original cream white color with red interior and as the car is my wife's car and she usually gets what she wants it will have "mighty mouse" decals on the doors. Not as bad as the "my little pony" stuff she did on her Ferrari.
I also have for sale the complete drive train that came out of the running driving car. It is a 633 engine complete from air cleaner to muffler and drive shafts. Keeping the starter as I do not have any spare starters that are cable actuated.
Jay
 
Jay you don't want to sandblast magnesium wheels. The 1050 crank might need to be drilled for a pilot bushing. Read Greg Schmidts book, available for download on this site.
 
I have been sandblasting magnesium wheels for years without issue, just run the pressure a bit lower. Wheel have now been powder coated and look good. The engine was last in a 600 so no issues.
Thank you.
Jay
 
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