Suspension Bushing Spring Rates

giuseppe

Daily Driver
HI all!

I was finishing up the rebuild of my rear lower arms, and with the fact that I had loose bushings in my hands, I decided to measure the bushing spring rate to contribute a bit to the knowledge base here. In my real life, I'm a suspension bushing engineer, and I've spent almost 30 years now (yikes) designing and building elastomer suspension bushings for OEM applications.

IMG_0765.jpegRear Lower Arm Bushings.jpg

The rear lower bushings are what I would call an "extended-end Silentbloc" design (invented by a Belgian engineer in 1929). This design type is really robust and very durable, but it is not used much currently in the industry due to lack of spring rate precision in serial production. Most new vehicles require repeatable spring rates to limit alignment needs at end of line. Based on the measurement results, it looks like they might have been targeting something around ~6 kN/mm for the radial spring rate (deflecting the inner component perpendicular to its long axis into the outer component).

Rear Lower Arm Bushing Measurement.jpgRear Lower Bushing Radial Spring Rate.jpg

I'll work toward doing the same for the toe link and front lower arm bushing when I have a chance. In the meantime, feel free to ask any bushing questions you may have, I'll do my best to answer. For the record, I plan to leave everything original/stock in terms of bushings; those Fiat engineers knew what they were doing!

Joe
 
HI all!

I was finishing up the rebuild of my rear lower arms, and with the fact that I had loose bushings in my hands, I decided to measure the bushing spring rate to contribute a bit to the knowledge base here. In my real life, I'm a suspension bushing engineer, and I've spent almost 30 years now (yikes) designing and building elastomer suspension bushings for OEM applications.

View attachment 100557View attachment 100558

The rear lower bushings are what I would call an "extended-end Silentbloc" design (invented by a Belgian engineer in 1929). This design type is really robust and very durable, but it is not used much currently in the industry due to lack of spring rate precision in serial production. Most new vehicles require repeatable spring rates to limit alignment needs at end of line. Based on the measurement results, it looks like they might have been targeting something around ~6 kN/mm for the radial spring rate (deflecting the inner component perpendicular to its long axis into the outer component).

View attachment 100559View attachment 100560

I'll work toward doing the same for the toe link and front lower arm bushing when I have a chance. In the meantime, feel free to ask any bushing questions you may have, I'll do my best to answer. For the record, I plan to leave everything original/stock in terms of bushings; those Fiat engineers knew what they were doing!

Joe
It would be great if you could add to this thread so it can be easily found. Thanks!

One wonders if there is a difference between the OE and the newer aftermarket ones.
 
Excellent, I love to see actual scientific testing done. Very cool test rig. ;)

Any feedback on how this bushing's spring rate compares to others from similar applications? Or some idea how that number relates to things overall (what does 6 kN/mm really mean here)?

I had the same thought as @kmead; I assume that new bush was a aftermarket part and wonder how it compares to an original one.

I've noticed the rubber in old original bushings (that I remove from X arms) have become very hard and therefore would have a much higher spring rate? Can you test one of your old ones to compare with the new one?
 
Would be good to do a quality, durability and consistency assessment of current aftermarket replacement bushings compared to the oem Fiat/Bertone bushings.

Seems the chassis/suspension designer Giuseppe Puleo made good choices with the suspension design as the suspension in the exxe has been proven over time to be excellent in many ways.

Much of the same suspension design got applied to the Lancia Montecarlo/Scorpion aka Scorpiacarlo.



Bernice
 
Excellent, I love to see actual scientific testing done. Very cool test rig. ;)

Any feedback on how this bushing's spring rate compares to others from similar applications? Or some idea how that number relates to things overall (what does 6 kN/mm really mean here)?

I had the same thought as @kmead; I assume that new bush was a aftermarket part and wonder how it compares to an original one.

I've noticed the rubber in old original bushings (that I remove from X arms) have become very hard and therefore would have a much higher spring rate? Can you test one of your old ones to compare with the new one?
Answers below!

Q1) Any feedback on how this bushing's spring rate compares to others from similar applications?
A1) So most modern vehicles utilize an isolated subframe in the rear suspension. This allows for the subframe bushings (which isolate the structure that most of the rear suspension arms/links attach to) to be independently tuned from the primary suspension bushings in the rear arms/links. My observation/experience is that in most modern vehicles with multi-link rear suspensions, the primary suspension bushings are quite stiff radially (15 to 30 kN/mm on center) and the subframe bushings are one order of magnitude softer (maybe 1.5 to 3 kN/mm) [generalities only, there are many, many unique cases]. So this would lead to the thought that the X1/9 bushings, at a radial rate somewhere between those two, were specified to provide a good balance between isolation and handling. But this observation could be utter hogwash; I suspect the people who actually knew may sadly not be with us anymore!

Modern three point control arms that are not connected via an isolated subframe (mostly front lower arms but sometimes rear upper arms as well) generally have one soft (ride) bushing and one stiff (handling) bushing, with the position of each determined by the arm geometry in the vehicle. I'd guess that we don't see that here due to the economical nature of the X1/9 platform; the complexity was likely just not worth it.

Q2) Or some idea how that number relates to things overall (what does 6 kN/mm really mean here)?
A2) What I'm reporting is the pseudo-static (low speed articulation) spring rate. This is the radial spring rate that the bushing is presenting to the vehicle during gross motion at relatively low translation rates (think of handling maneuvers). When I say "6 kN/mm", this means that the slope of the force-displacement curve is at or around 6 kN/mm in the linear portion of the bushing's travel around the zero load point. For every additional mm traveled, the bushing is presenting ~6 kN additonal reaction force. You can see on the graphs in the original post that the slope is beginning to change at higher load; the spring rate will eventually go non-linear after a certain amount of travel and the bushing will present a stiffer spring rate to limit motion (this is due to the changing confinement geometry of the rubber section being compressed). A bushing also has three other important static rate directions that are considered during the design process. These are axial (deflecting the inner sleeve along its long axis relative to the bushing), torsional (twisting the inner sleeve about its long axis), and conical/cardanic (twisting the inner sleeve perpendicular to its long axis).

Natural rubber (and other polymers) are viscoelastic materials, this is why I stated that this was a "static" rate. The dynamic rates of this (and any) bushing will be very different depending on load application speed and amplitude. These higher-frequency characteristics become very important when considering isolation!

Natural rubber (which the vast majority of all OEM suspension bushings are made from) also has a remarkable characteristic that is called strain crystallization. When subjected to an impact/high speed load, the rubber changes structure, briefly forgetting to act like a fluid and restructuring itself into a crystalline solid, protecting itself from damage/crack growth. Hard to believe that tree sap is such an important part of modern society!

Q3) I assume that new bush was a aftermarket part and wonder how it compares to an original one.
A3) This I don't know; I got the new bushings from Matt. If they are aftermarket, they are very well constructed. It is absolutely possible that the rate I'm measuring does not match the Fiat original specification. I would LOVE to see the orginal Fiat technical drawing for PN 4290107...

Bushing Label.jpeg

Q4) I've noticed the rubber in old original bushings (that I remove from X arms) have become very hard and therefore would have a much higher spring rate?
A4) This is correct, rubber does age harden and presents higher spring rate over time. Especially when pushing 50 years old!

Q5) Can you test one of your old ones to compare with the new one?
A5) Unfortunately, my old bushings were in a pretty sad state; I did not test them. I'll see if maybe I can find an OEM one somewhere. It is worth noting for posterity, though, that the large cracks that present themselves at the end of old bushings do not necessarily mean that function is greatly degraded. Natural rubber, epecially when used in a bushing like these, usually has a low loading of anti-ozonant protection (which takes the form of a wax mixed in with the rubber and would make the part more likely to come apart in the application). The ozone cleaves the sulfur cross links in the rubber (resulting in the cracks), but it cannot continue this cleaving action into the highly compressed center section of the bushing.

Worn Out Bushing.jpeg

Joe
 
Have a New Old Stock oem Fiat rear bushing that can be shipped to your for measurement and comparison.
Will send PM.

Notable is the goal of modern suspension design for road isolation, on chassis/suspensions like the exxe, they were designed with a different set of trade offs, not completely driven by road isolation.

Compliant bushings are only one aspect of achieving road isolation in the chassis/suspension design. One of the best controlled ride, complaint and road isolated chassis/suspension to be mass produced was the Citroen DS/SM/CX series of hydropneumatic suspensions which had no compliant bushings, Citroen used taper roller bearings in their trailing arm suspension, yet achieved excellent results.


Bernice
 
Would be good to do a quality, durability and consistency assessment of current aftermarket replacement bushings compared to the oem Fiat/Bertone bushings.

Seems the chassis/suspension designer Giuseppe Puleo made good choices with the suspension design as the suspension in the exxe has been proven over time to be excellent in many ways.

Much of the same suspension design got applied to the Lancia Montecarlo/Scorpion aka Scorpiacarlo.



Bernice
Bernice - interesting points!

--> Would be good to do a quality, durability and consistency assessment of current aftermarket replacement bushings compared to the oem Fiat/Bertone bushings.
My observation only is that the aftermarket today is vastly different than the aftermarket of perhaps 20 years ago. When I started my career, most aftermarket bushings (at least in my region) were either fairly good copies made reasonably well or were sourced directly from the OEM suppliers and repackaged for aftermarket use. The cost of retooling parts was high, so firms either did not pay it (buy from the current vendor) or they paid to make nice tools (make good copies that matched the original design). The advent of the aftermarket's need to have a product for every modern application has lead to lots of very poor quality parts to be made all over the world (as we all know). I wonder, though, that the low-ish volume and age of the X1/9 and sister platforms may have shielded it from the worst of this trend (not enough volume to justify the making of cheap copies). I'll admit that I have not researched this position, I could be completely wrong!

I'll keep my eye out for bushing variants to study and comment on further. I've purchased all the rubber bits for my X1/9 new from either Matt or ebay (watching for NOS/made in Italy bits), and I have been very pleased overall with what I have seen/secured.

--> Seems the chassis/suspension designer Giuseppe Puleo made good choices with the suspension design as the suspension in the exxe has been proven over time to be excellent in many ways.
I'd agree with this completely; so deliciously simple and well laid out. Glorious high rubber wall compression everywhere, allowing even softer rubber to deliver high spring rates matched with good articulation/isolation capability. The OG engineers clearly did not allow economics/simplicity to compromise function.

Joe
 
Have a New Old Stock oem Fiat rear bushing that can be shipped to your for measurement and comparison.
Will send PM.

Notable is the goal of modern suspension design for road isolation, on chassis/suspensions like the exxe, they were designed with a different set of trade offs, not completely driven by road isolation.

Compliant bushings are only one aspect of achieving road isolation in the chassis/suspension design. One of the best controlled ride, complaint and road isolated chassis/suspension to be mass produced was the Citroen DS/SM/CX series of hydropneumatic suspensions which had no compliant bushings, Citroen used taper roller bearings in their trailing arm suspension, yet achieved excellent results.


Bernice

"Citroen DS/SM/CX series of hydropneumatic suspensions"
You now speak of black magic! A legend in my industry.

""Magès may never have been able to solve this problem if he had better technical training. Marcel Pagnol, the French playwright, famously said "Everyone thought it was impossible, except an idiot who did not know and who created it." Magès kept a copy of this statement on his desk.""
 
It is worth noting for posterity, though, that the large cracks that present themselves at the end of old bushings do not necessarily mean that function is greatly degraded.
Thank you for adding the additional information. Excellent job. ;)

Regarding the above quote about the 'visible' cracks and deterioration. I have found that to be very true. Especially on bushings that have a rather thin layer of rubber, like these rear X items. The bushing appears to be toast when viewed externally (i.e. the protruding ends of the rubber), but the actual working portion (inside the external metal sleeve) is still in decent shape. This raises a question; is there any significant function to the protruding rubber that extends out the ends? The inner metal sleeve extends the same distance and locates the bush in the suspension mount. So how critical is the dry, cracked portion of rubber that can be seen externally?
 
Thank you for adding the additional information. Excellent job. ;)

Regarding the above quote about the 'visible' cracks and deterioration. I have found that to be very true. Especially on bushings that have a rather thin layer of rubber, like these rear X items. The bushing appears to be toast when viewed externally (i.e. the protruding ends of the rubber), but the actual working portion (inside the external metal sleeve) is still in decent shape. This raises a question; is there any significant function to the protruding rubber that extends out the ends? The inner metal sleeve extends the same distance and locates the bush in the suspension mount. So how critical is the dry, cracked portion of rubber that can be seen externally?
The assembly process/pace of a bushing of this type is really quite violent. It's easy for the very slippery elastomer insert to get cocked in the bore, generating a scrap part. The "extended end" helps to keep the insert aligned with the bushing bore during both steps of the assembly process (see cross section included). It also produces a more cosmetically appealing part (at least until the ends crack!)
 

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Great info!
I also have some bushing questions.

1) You mentioned age hardening. Waht happens to an NOS bushing that has been on a shelf for 40 years?
Won‘t it be hardened as well?

2) How about PU?
You mentioned rubber still being used today in OEM applications, so I suspect PU is not better.
I installed aftermarket SuperPro PU bushings in my rear A-arms because I was afraid of crappy quality new rubber bushings. What do you think of that choice?

Thanks!
 
Great info!
I also have some bushing questions.

1) You mentioned age hardening. Waht happens to an NOS bushing that has been on a shelf for 40 years?
Won‘t it be hardened as well?

2) How about PU?
You mentioned rubber still being used today in OEM applications, so I suspect PU is not better.
I installed aftermarket SuperPro PU bushings in my rear A-arms because I was afraid of crappy quality new rubber bushings. What do you think of that choice?

Thanks!
Sure thing, I'll do my best!

Q1) What happens to an NOS bushing that has been on a shelf for 40 years?
A1) In my experience, it will have stiffened up from sitting. The max span that I've observed in person is a few years and the hardening was present but not too severe. Here's a good article I found that talks about the mechanisms:


Bernice has an OEM NOS bushing and plans to send it to me! We'll all be able to answer this question together, I'm super excited.

Q2) How about PU?
A2) I need to be careful here, as I don't know too much about it and haven't worked with it much. My observations are below, but I'd be willing to learn more about it at any time!
--> I'm not aware of any modern OEM suspension pivot currently made from polyurethane (but of course no one is aware of everything).
--> A stiffer durometer (standard hardness measurement for polymers) material does not translate immediately into a stiffer part. Wall compression/shape change either during fabrication or installation is crucial to allow a part to deliver the desired spring rates.
--> The introduction of relative motion of the subcomponents (like assuming that an inner sleeve will slip inside a bushing during normal use) is a concept that is exceedingly rare in the industry. The potential for wear/contaminant ingestion would give me pause.

However - We're in a different world here than designing for OEM use. We have vehicles, most of which modified in some way, that are used on a limited basis for pleasure driving. Who knows what the "best" option is? Maybe my points above don't matter at all! I'm using stock (maybe? I dunno the exact origin) rubber parts because that's what I'm comfortable with. If I can finish the task of getting my car back on the road, maybe I'll mess with suspension pivots a bit in the future...

Car Front.jpg

Joe
 
Great, thanks.
I thought of another question.
Is rubber always the same hardness unlike PU where you can get different materials?
The question came up when thinking about the NOS bushing. Will you compare its old rubber to new modern rubber or do we need to know how stiff the bushing was 40 years ago?
 
The front lower control arm on my current DD has a cylindrical pivot point in the front thru bolted with a horizontal fastener, and a flat disc pivot point in the rear with a vertical fastener. Probably very similar to many modern cars.


MR_68211643AF_Ang.jpg


When watching repair videos online where the car is on a lift and the mechanic is replacing a CV axle or strut, I often see mechanics using prybars and whatnot forcing this type of control arm waaaaay past its normal range of motion especially downward to make room for removal/installation of said strut or axle.

Does this repair technique make you as a suspension engineer cringe as much as me? These damned puck-style rubber bushings are fragile enough to where normal driving tears them up over time, so I can't see how bending it another 30-60 degrees is doing anything but guaranteeing the offending mechanic a future repair job to replace the bushing or the entire arm.
 
Great, thanks.
I thought of another question.
Is rubber always the same hardness unlike PU where you can get different materials?
The question came up when thinking about the NOS bushing. Will you compare its old rubber to new modern rubber or do we need to know how stiff the bushing was 40 years ago?
Sure thing!

Q1) Is rubber always the same hardness unlike PU where you can get different materials?
A1) Nope! Natural rubber, when used in suspension pivot applications, has a wild amount of options in terms of stiffness, inherent damping, resistance to heat and chemicals, and other properties. I've worked with hundreds of formulations in my career. The normal working durometer range for natural rubber formulations is usually 40 to 80 Shore A. Historically, most designs stayed in the 55 to 75 Shore A range, but modern vehicles tend to be on the softer side, seeking better flex life fatigue properties and NVH isolation. Carbon black is the primary reinforcing material in natural rubber formulations, and maybe 55 to 65 durometer Shore A is the "sweet spot" for formulations in terms of carbon black loading. Softer and you lack decent reinforcement due to limited black loading, harder and you're getting into ranges that are more difficult to process/manufacture.

If you'd like to read more, the Wikipedia article is pretty good! We often joke about tree sap mixed with powdered dinosaurs...


Q2) Will you compare its old rubber to new modern rubber or do we need to know how stiff the bushing was 40 years ago?
A2) I can try to do a quick durometer check, but accuracy on finished parts is difficult. Just based on my "calibrated fingers" and the old bushing bits I have from my arms, it seems like the OEM rear lower bushings are somewhere in the mid 60 durometer Shore A, which is totally normal/expected for that generation of parts. It's hard to say exactly what we'll be comparing with this activity, we'll just need to look at results and discuss!

Joe
 
The front lower control arm on my current DD has a cylindrical pivot point in the front thru bolted with a horizontal fastener, and a flat disc pivot point in the rear with a vertical fastener. Probably very similar to many modern cars.

When watching repair videos online where the car is on a lift and the mechanic is replacing a CV axle or strut, I often see mechanics using prybars and whatnot forcing this type of control arm waaaaay past its normal range of motion especially downward to make room for removal/installation of said strut or axle.

Does this repair technique make you as a suspension engineer cringe as much as me? These damned puck-style rubber bushings are fragile enough to where normal driving tears them up over time, so I can't see how bending it another 30-60 degrees is doing anything but guaranteeing the offending mechanic a future repair job to replace the bushing or the entire arm.
Answers below!

Q1) ....Probably very similar to many modern cars.
A1) Yes! We call this a vertical pivot (boring name). They are becoming more and more popular as the spring rates between the handling (fore-aft orientation) and ride (vertical orientation) bushings move further and further apart.

Q2) Does this repair technique make you as a suspension engineer cringe as much as me?
A2) Nah, no real concern. A well-formulated elastomer compound will be capable of maybe 300 to 400% elongation at break/tear. This means that the inner component would likely need to be fully outside the outer component before you'd be at a deflection to be worried about, especially for a one-time situation. Rubber is REALLY robust.

Q3) These damned puck-style rubber bushings are fragile enough...
A3) This is for sure a valid point. They require careful design and close attention to strain. You can see in the image you attached, the vertical bushing is mostly "void" (through holes in the design added to allow high travel at low rate). The elastomer chemically bonded to the outer sleeve is only in the two axes I've marked. One has to be sure that these "legs" are not asked to do more than they can, and are precompressed to a level than will not put them into tension too often.
Bushing Markup.jpg

Joe
 
Giuseppe, this is all wonderful information and thank you for stepping into our (currently) little world. As someone who has spent a lifetime writing scientific papers it's refreshing to see a discussion of data and analysis. I completely agree that the Fiat engineers were pretty on target with a lot of what they did. The pity is that few people seem to have tumbled onto the fact and just know that some of what they did is different (meaning "odd" probably). The quote from Marcel Pagnol is especially appreciated. The thought was mentioned down through the ages. My favorite is from Thoreau. But what I want to ask in my simple minded view of things is (and I think it was mentioned above, but I am too stupid to have caught it): Does this mean that all this polyurethane bushing stuff that people have been hawking is off the mark? I have seen a number of applications now where the rubber bushing is preferred in applications that require compliance, such as radius arm bushings. According to Steve H the rubber bushings in the control arms serve a very important purpose and polyurethane is not the cure-all that it is often pitched as being.
 
Giuseppe, this is all wonderful information and thank you for stepping into our (currently) little world. As someone who has spent a lifetime writing scientific papers it's refreshing to see a discussion of data and analysis. I completely agree that the Fiat engineers were pretty on target with a lot of what they did. The pity is that few people seem to have tumbled onto the fact and just know that some of what they did is different (meaning "odd" probably). The quote from Marcel Pagnol is especially appreciated. The thought was mentioned down through the ages. My favorite is from Thoreau. But what I want to ask in my simple minded view of things is (and I think it was mentioned above, but I am too stupid to have caught it): Does this mean that all this polyurethane bushing stuff that people have been hawking is off the mark? I have seen a number of applications now where the rubber bushing is preferred in applications that require compliance, such as radius arm bushings. According to Steve H the rubber bushings in the control arms serve a very important purpose and polyurethane is not the cure-all that it is often pitched as being.
Hello sir! Thanks for the kind feedback.

I'm going to continue my measured response relative to the topic of polyurethane. It's not used much (or at all) for OEM applications, and I simply don't have enough experience with it to comment much. I've learned in my life that it is much better to take the time to learn a topic prior to forming an opinion!

I suspect the popularity around polyurethane for hobbyists is the fact that it is fairly easy to create tools to make unique parts, and these parts are easy for individuals to install. Both good things!

Perhaps I'll get the chance to study it a bit more going forward.

Joe
 
Joe, good engineer's response! My science has gotten much better just working with spacecraft engineers on various Mars missions: measure first, establish a fact, and then comment. Good sound practice! A delightful thread.
 
Joe, I think your comment that PU is not used in OEM applications is a clear enough indication that it is not superior to rubber as suggested by the aftermarket.
 
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