The Abarth X1/9 Prototipo/Stradale Thread

Wow!!

I've never seen an actual interior of a Prototipo. Are you saying this is a Moorenhut work up or the real thing? I would asume that if Moorenhut did it it's very close to the original.

I like the look of that console. I immediately noticed the length of the shifter.

Still can't make out the gauges though.

That's a very helpful picture, thanks for posting.
 
On 20 juni 2009 there is a exchange day by Guy Moerenhout conservator from the Abarth works museum ..
Cost, free (free entry) ..
Maby somebody can make picture's there...
 
Sorry that I answer only now, but I don't read very often here...

I understand that and I did read that post, I guess I ment why are they never really seen at shows and events. While it seems everyone knows who owns or last owned them it seems odd that they are not seen more often. I have been to shows in Europe, The US, Asia, and never seen one on display. Just seems kind of odd that they are all locked up away from public view.
Yes, it is like this... The only cars that were shown in the past were the ones of Cosentino (#133, #23002 and the Stradale) and in some shows the Macaluso's car (#23003 at the "Auto Moto Retro" in Torino in 2002 and in a museum in Italy in 2002). Further more this car was shown at some events at Bertone. 23001 was never shown to public up to our article in the Auto Italia and the Autocollezioni magazine in 2006. #133 was shown in a japanese magazine many years ago and #23002 was never shown since it was sold to Japan.

The cars were all sold without engines by Fiat/Abarth, Cosentino installed an 1300ccm SOHC engine in #133. Later he wanted to place a Ferraris DOHC 16V engine into the car, but he didn't finish this project but sold the car with #23002 to Japan. Macaluso and the italian man who bought #23001 installed the 16V Abarth engines into their chassis later.

Guy Murenhout told me, that he bought a crached Chassis in Poland. I have got in contact with some people in poland, they told me that there was one car in poland for a show but the car returned to Italy again. This was confirmed by a former Abarth worker, he also told me that Abarth sold many parts to poland, but never a complete car. The Murenhout car is a very nice replica, but not an original car.

Regads, Alex
 
Where are you getting this????

Where does this keep coming from that the Prototipos were sold without engines? I see absolutely no evidence for this, and at least three pieces to the contrary.

1) The car was intended as a homologation for some stradale iteration of the X1/9 based on a racing version, this would have been incomplete had it not had an ENGINE specification. And guess what? It's well known what that engine was, it was a 1.6 from the 124 punched out to 1840cc with a 16 valve head and a few combinations of Weber carbs. There was no Fiat/Abarth, it was Fiat as they completely owned Abarth and it was the 'tuning department.' Abarth did not sell parts or engines as some separate entity by this time, though they surely did earlier. To imply that that it's some accident that a few of these cars wound up with Abarth tuned engines because some lucky individuals happened to acquire them from Abarth is crazy. Conclusion - Fiat would not have been looking to homologate this car with no engine spec, the fact that they never did doesn't mean that there wasn't one, it only means that the car was not homologated. One of the primary reasons for the homologation in the FIRST PLACE was to get a hotter engine in this underpowered car so they could race it.....how hard is this to understand??

2) Consentino raced at least one of his prototipos in Italy before having it shipped to Florida, and you're going to tell me that he goes to the Fiat factory, buys the car and goes..."Ooops....okay guys, let me drag this chassis down the street and put a 1300 engine in it, can you sell me one......please?"

3) Of the original 4-6 cars that we have show pictures of, the engine/carb configuration is consistent.

I do not believe the cars were all sold without engines. In fact, I don't believe any of the original were sold without engines. Show some proof if you believe otherwise.....I'd be happy to see hard evidence to the contrary.
 
Misunderstanding?

I believe "were sold without engines" means that when Fiat was done with the cars (they were retired as race cars), Fiat removed the engines and sold the cars engineless.

It is not suggested that Fiat sold the cars in new/unused state without engines.

Just the way I understand it.
 
Hi,

I hope that I understand all what you wrote and will try to give you an answer...

Show some proof if you believe otherwise.....I'd be happy to see hard evidence to the contrary.
We spoke with Giorgio Pianta, Sergio Limone, Guiseppe Volta, Gino Macaluso and many other people who were working at/with Abarth and with the X1/9 at this time. I only write/say, what they told us. And they told us, the cars were sold without engines. Further more the man who bought 23001 and the man who bought the Macaluso's car from Abarth told us, that there was no engine installed as they bought the car.
Consentino raced at least one of his prototipos in Italy before having it shipped to Florida
Maybe that the Stradale Cosentino bought had an engine, he wrote in his book that he run it at an autocross. But not the race cars.

After the project was stopped, these cars had no values for Fiat any more (as I remember the price was noted in the vehicle title, I can look for it at home). But, the engines were race engines, similar to the engines in the 124 Abarth. And these cars were still raced by Fiat/Abarth, so they were able to use the engines in these cars, they had not many 16V cylinder heads (I don't know if you know the story about the "brick").


It's well known what that engine was, it was a 1.6 from the 124 punched out to 1840cc with a 16 valve head and a few combinations of Weber carbs.
Of the original 4-6 cars that we have show pictures of, the engine/carb configuration is consistent.
According to the homologation form it was planned to install a 134AS engine with 1995 ccm in the stradale, for the race engines they planned to make a 16V head (also 1995 ccm - I have the homologation form at home, if you want I can tell you the Abarth part number of the cylinder head). In the protoype cars there were many engines installed, from the 1756 ccm to the 1840 ccm engine with 2 and 4 valves, with carburettors or with Kugelfischer injection. Sergio Limone gave us a list, in which race what kind of engine was installed, also Giorgio Pianta told us on which engines he remembered. On my website http://www.x19world.de/Abarth_Einsaetze_en.html I have a summary of the races, which car took place and which engine was installed.

There was no Fiat/Abarth, it was Fiat as they completely owned Abarth and it was the 'tuning department.'
That's right, because of this I din't write "Abarth", but "Fiat/Abarth".

One of the primary reasons for the homologation in the FIRST PLACE was to get a hotter engine in this underpowered car so they could race it
The first reason was to find a rally car that was able to beat the Stratos.

Regards, Alex
 
Okay.....that's good...

Alex....you seem to have some close to the source references, but it really doesn't explain why the cars showed up with no engines and the how's and why's of how they ended up with what engines they did. That might be interesting to know.....

Well....all I can see is it's news to me, but you have a lot more information than I do....so....please let us learn more of the story from your excellent references.
 
Hi,

the cars were sold for about 2,500,000 Lire, I must look at home for the correct amount and date when they were sold. 2,500,000 Lire are about 1500,- $ today... A friend of mine bought a 1600ccm Dallara 16V engine in the 1980ies, he payed 40,000 DM for the engine, that's about 25,000 $ today. So this is one reason because I believe that the cars were sold without engines...

The Abarth 16V engines were very rare in this time, Abarth had to build 100 pieces for the homologation. Because they didn't need as much heads, they made castings without cores. The heads were there for the homologation, but not all pieces were usable. The heads without cores were called "bricks".

This is another reason beacause I think that the cars were sold without engines, the 124 Abarth's were still raced until the 131 was finished, and they needed all the parts they were able to get.

Like Ulix wrote, it was not planned to sell the cars without engine, if they really had been homologated and sold as race cars. As I wrote, Fiat/Abarth planned to install a 1995 ccm engine with an optional 16V head and optional 84.1mm pistons for 1999 ccm.

Regards, Alex
 
16 valves

So you're saying that the 16 valve heads were rare because they were being used for the Abarth 124 Spider program? Were the Abarth Spider and Abarth Prototipo projects simultaneous or were the 16 valve heads also earmarked for the 131 project, which was the Fiat entry for rallying after that point? The Stratos got the 2.4 Ferrari and became uber car and the 131 was Fiat's successor to the 124 program, the X just got left out.......truly a shame.

Would love to see some facts/stories/details about all this Alex....
 
Hi,

I will try to make a little summary about the "life" of the X1/9 Abarth Prototipo... to understand how it came to this car, I will start with the 124.

In the early 1960ies some teams were successful with the 124 Spider in Rallies, because of this Fiat found a small rallye team to ensure an adequate supply of spare parts for these teams. In 1970 Fiat found a semi-profesional rallye department ("Reparto Corse") with drivers and co-drivers, in 1971 Giovanni Squazzini proposed to buy Abarth for this rallye team, what they did in October 1971. In 1972 the rallye department moved to the Abarth factory at the Corso Marche in Torino, the result was the Fiat 124 1600ccm that was released in the same year. Also in this year Abarth started the development of a special rallye car on the basis of the 124, with the engine of the 132 (132AC4) with 1756ccm. This car was shown first at the auto show in Geneva and started for its first race at the TAP Rallye Portugal as "Fiat 124 Abarth Prototipo". In January 1973 the 500 units for the homologation were produced so that this car was able to start in the former "group 4" regelement. In the same year they developed a 16V head for this engine (Abarth 232) and an engine with 1840 ccm with 16V head (Abarth 232G), Gino Macaluso was appointed to the "sporting director" of Abarth.

Sergio Limone told us, that Fiat/Abarth were looking for a replacement of the 124 because of the superiority of the Lancia Stratos. The car should have a similar design as the Stratos, so they choose the X1/9 that was introduced in the end of 1972 and the X1/20 (later Montacarlo, Scorpion in the US) that was still in the development at Fiat. They got for the X1/9, because it was lighter and faster than the X1/20. This one was driven as Abarth 030 at the Giro d'Italia in 1974.

In 1973 Abarth got a X1/9 for developing a rallye car. The chassis was one of the show cars that was shown at Sicily in November 1972. They installed the 1995 ccm engine from the X1/20 and a 5-speed-gearbox of the Lancia Beta Coupe group 4, modified the brakes and experimented with various suspensions. After successful tests that were done by Giorgio Pianta they decided to get some experience in rallies, so they started at the rallye Sicilia in March of 1974. Pianta told us, that they installed an Abarth 232 engine (1756ccm 16V) short before the race. 50m after the start a drive shaft was broken so that they had to stopp... They experimented with the 232 and 232G engine parallel to the 124 Abarth project, you can see in some pictures that a 124 was standing beside a X1/9 at a race track, where engine parts were changed from one car to another. Fiat tested at the race tracks of Casale and Mugello.

In the second rallye, the Rally 4 Regioni, they had problems with the gearbox so that they had to stopp this race in the second stage. After this rallye they made many tests, the result was the first place at the Rallye delle Alpi Orientali in June 1974. They did show to the bosses of Fiat that the car was competitive, so they were able to order 5 more chassis in the summer of 1974. The first chassis, TO H02940 #133, was the "experiental car" of the X1/9 Abarth, because of this I call it the "porotype of the Prototipo". The three other race cars were built with all the experience Abarth made with TO H02940. Three more cars were registered in September 4th 1974 with the number plates TO L65335 (#23002), TO L65336 (#23003) and TO L65337 (#23001). One more chassis became the Stradale, the sixth chassis was a "spare chassis". The first race of the three new race cars was the Tour de France Auto in September 1974, after this event the cars were basically modified again and TO L65335 and TO L65336 started at the Giro d'Italia in October 1974. They participated in various rallyes until the rallye season finished in the end of November 1974, in the same month the car was shown at the Torino Motor Show. In the meantime they built a Stradale version, that has to be built for 500 units until February 1975 for the homologation in group 4. Bertone started to produced parts for the Stradale, Mr. Panicco told us that they made some hundred aluminium hoods, doors, wing extensions and many more parts.

In the meantime the Rallye team was going to France, where they tested new tires of Michelin in various rallies. The driver was Bernard Darniche with his co-driver Alain Mahé, they won most of the rallies they entered. Darnice, who also drove the Stratos, said that the handling of the X1/9 was better than that of the Stratos.

In the meantime the Fiat bosses decided, that the sporting image of the Fiat/Lancia concern should be formed with the marque Lancia and the Stratos, and that Fiat should be formed to a "family car" manufacturer. The X1/9 was sold good, but Fiat had problems to sell the 131. So they decided to stopp the X1/9-Project and use instead the 131 for the rallies. At this time Gino Macaluso was on the way to the commitee for issue the homologation. He told us, that one evening before the hand-over of the homologation form he became a telephone call from Torino to come back. There he heared about the stopp of the project and was so disappointed, that he left Fiat/Abarth and went back to work as architect. Bertone was ordered to destroy all he has produced for the X1/9 Abarth, instead of this he has got the order to produce the 131 Abarth.

After the stopp of the Project Abarth developed the 131, which had a similar engine that was planned in the X1/9, but was never raced in the X1/9. The 1995ccm 16V engine is completely different to the 1840ccm 16V engine, but the basics were developed in the X1/9.

After The Project was stopped, Fiat sold the cars. TO H02940, TO L65335 and the Stradale were bought by Al Cosentino (not at the same time), TO H02940 and TO L65335 later sold to a collector in Japan. TO L65336 was sold to Italy and was raced one more time at the Giro d'Italia in 1980 with Dallara wing extensions, after that it was raced at many slalom events in Italy and won the italian "super slalom" championship in 1983. In the end of the 1990ies it was sold to Gino Macaluso, the former sporting director of Fiat/Abarth and this man, who drove the same car at the Giro d'Italia in 1974. He fitted an Abarth 232G engine again.
TO L65337 was sold to another collector and rallye driver in Italy, he drove one rallye and some autocross events. In the 1980ies the car was restored and fitted with a 16V Abarth 232G engine.

The evidence of all what I write are interviews with Giorgio Pianta, Gino Macaluso, Sergio Limone, Guiseppe Volta, Gian Beppe Panicco, Clay Regazzoni, Al Cosentino, many hundrets of pictures, many documents like the vehicle titles or the homologation form, informations from the archives of Fiat and Bertone, drivers, mechanics and owners of the cars after the time at Abarth.

I took many, many years for the research of the history of these cars, in the end I met Roberto Motta who was able to open doors to Fiat, Abarth and all the people who were working at and with this cars in this time. One of my biggest dreams became true, as I was able to see an original X1/9 Abarth Prototipo driving in front of me, to hear the sound of this engine, to hear the sound of the gearbox, to smell it's exhaust gases, to make some hundret pictures of it, to sit in it, to lie under it... it was an amazing experience :)

tol65337_2005_01.jpg


tol65337_2005_03.jpg


Ciao, Alex
 
Interresting history

Thanks for sharing that one Alex.
Great photos too... I was reading the last paragraph you wrote there and was trying to sort out if you were talking about the prototipo or .... :excited: :eek:
 
There's a good article if you follow this link - about 1/3 way down.

Hi,

I know this article, but there are many mistakes in it. This car is the replica of Guy Murenhout. He said that his replica is based on a real Abarth Prototipo that was crashed in Poland. But neither Giorgio Pianta nor anyone else was able to confirm that there ever was a car sold to poland. I met a nice person from Poland who gave me the homologation form of the Protoipo, he was getting in contact with the former sporting director of OBRSO ( I don't know his name in the moment, if you want I can look at it at home. OBRSO is the Reserch and development center of personal cars in Poland, the sport depatment built the famous "Stratopolonez", an FSO Polonez with the engine of a Lancia Stratos). He told him, that there was a X1/9 Abarth Prototipo in Poland, but only for a show for communistic bosses in Poland, and he confirmed that this car was going back to Italy again. Another person I met who was working at Abarth in this time and also was working on the X1/9 Abarth Prototipo told me, that he remembered, that they were loading a lorry with many X1/9 Abarth parts to Poland, but not a complete car.

Further more the Chassis of this car is a 1500 Chassis, and the chassis number is on a badge that never exists on any Fiat X1/9 Abarth Prototipo.

In page 4 of this article you can see in the top left pitcture the car with the chassis number 23002 and the number plate TO L65335, on the right the car of Gino Macaluso in the Museo Bonfanti in 2002.

Regards, Alex
 
Replica

Thanks for a great history of this car,you must have had passion for the prototipo.
My son and myself spent a couple of year trying to make a replica manly from photos and magazine articals its a pitty we did not have your knowledge.
thankyou Again,
Andrew Black.
 
That's strange.....

Will be interesting to see how this turns out, if this is real, it would have widespread ramifications, perhaps even with the factory gettting involved. Or in the least case, experts on these cars. Pictures would be nice. Something in the back of my mind says that there are people out there "in the know" that could try to create a scheme like this with a kit and it somehow mysteriously end up on ebay for 30 grand.

I just wonder how someone could have a car like that and not understand the significance of it, especially if he went to the trouble of having it brought over from Japan?

As for engines, I wonder if one of the 1840cc Abarths would be available to complete the car.
 
guy moerenhout

hallo boys ,sorry that I send this answer but I will say iff I dont answer the same day than there is something our with your mail our that I am away for rally and iff this is so than I answer the day after .I have always a Kit (1400 euro +vat)in stock and have also the doors.I have made /sold already more than 40 kit and have now also the Dallara kit thanks to a client from G.B.When you come to my place(abarth works museum)you can even see a prototipo remake and you can take a kit whit you.Another thing iff I need something than I ring for it because I can do also mistakes .So ,this is done and must say that the Prototipo is one off my favorites:dance:
 
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