Timing Keeps Slipping

On the metal aux pulleys, when you say a couple different styles to choose from, do you mean stamped vs cast or otherwise?

Cast iron or steel, with belt guard or without, solid or with 4 or 6 holes. Or any combo of these. Long ago I had an Italian aftermarket solid alloy one (with belt guard), but I haven't seen those available for 15-20 years or so...
 
Does any US vendor even sell the Astadur gasket? I don't recall finding any listed in the US back when I initially built my 1600, or during the (multiple) igntion timing HG failures. As long as the bolt type matches whatever the gasket spec he bought it (which will likely be std. bolt / retorque required) he will be OK.
 
MWB sells non stretch head bolts and his instructions indicate no retorque. I put them in my motor.
I really wish you would slow down and deal with the timing issue first, which has nothing to do with a head gasket replacement.
Have you certified that the head gasket is blown?

The other issue is that you just may not be driving this car to the show. I had three events this year so far that I had intended to bring the Fatrat to and had to bail on each one because the car was not ready or had a major failure. These are toys and family comes first....there is always next year.
 
You’ll want grade 10.9 M10x1.25 bolts, five 100mm and five 80mm. Belmetric or any of the other suspects will have them
Eric, you must have previously worked on the engine I recently tore down. :) It is a new-to-me 1500 that had the head bolts replaced with standard M10 grade 10.9 bolts, in the lengths you specified. At first I did not notice they were not stock Fiat head bolts and was curious why the thread lengths, overall lengths, and shank design were all slightly different from the 'normal' ones. We have discussed head bolts quite a bit in this (sort of non related) thread. I intend to start a new thread with head bolts as the title/subject for any future reference, and will copy a lot of the content from here (and cross post them). I'll detail the minor differences I just noted as well as some other tidbits just for the sake of discussion.
 
Eric, you must have previously worked on the engine I recently tore down. :)
Nope, that one is burning gas along North Carolina back roads....
But Matt sells exactly that combination as an off-the-shelf alternative to Fiat OEM so not at all surprising that you came across it.
 
Started today with the tensioner pulley replacement. Easier than I thought. Pull the belt and then take the old pulley out. Clean the bracket and put back in.
The crank pulley was out by -5 degrees. I set it correct (see pics). I am going to attempt to replace the belt without pulling the crank pulley (the one with the alternator and water pump) by taking those belts off and then placing the new timing belt.
Still thinking about the head gasket. I have all the parts (gasket and MWB head bolts). Because I am getting ready for the largest car show of my life I am cleaning and tightening things so I pulled the intake plenum to retighten the fuel injectors. Some were actually a little loose. That should take care of that for a while.
So if I replace the head gasket it should be great. I am already half way there with the tear down to get to it.
Something I didn’t think about was the crank pulley. Maybe I should replace that with the one VAS is offering for 40bucks just to ensure everything is perfect.
I have until 28 Sept to get this right.

Mike
719544D8-9A74-4A80-8D3B-8C274391B4E3.jpeg
B58395EC-CB6A-4529-8D50-5D7EFE14D167.jpeg
FFEEBC6B-63FF-4D32-96CF-9C68D6D6CFC7.jpeg
AF53C3C7-E1FA-41D7-AD10-7E4183E483AF.jpeg
94B4ACAD-78E8-4F30-A9B1-B1D185441608.jpeg
140B88E8-BDCC-47C7-BABF-38DADC369370.jpeg
 
I am going to hold off on the head gasket for now.
Smart move in my opinion. First there hasn't been any evidence that it needs to be changed. And doing so may create a problem that did not exist. Second it will turn into a bigger job than it looks, believe me. And you may not have time if you really want to make that show. The work you have already done looks good and you will still need time to get everything dialed in and determine if there are any other issues relating to the 'slipping' timing.
 
While you are at this stage, look thru the window at 12 o clock on the bell housing, just below the bottom of the thermostat housing. If the flywheel is correctly installed, you will be able to see a dot on the flywheel and see where such dot is positioned in relation to the hash marks cast into the window in the bell housing. The flywheel dot is considered to be much more accurate that the sheet metal pointer at the pulley end. Not to mention that the sheet metal pointer is one of the several "guard" plates that more or less enclose the bottom part of the timing belt---to get the belt off without pulling the crank pulley off the nose of the crank, you have to remove the guard plates and thus have to remove the pointer plate, losing your reference mark.
 
While you are at this stage, look thru the window at 12 o clock on the bell housing, just below the bottom of the thermostat housing. If the flywheel is correctly installed, you will be able to see a dot on the flywheel and see where such dot is positioned in relation to the hash marks cast into the window in the bell housing. The flywheel dot is considered to be much more accurate that the sheet metal pointer at the pulley end. Not to mention that the sheet metal pointer is one of the several "guard" plates that more or less enclose the bottom part of the timing belt---to get the belt off without pulling the crank pulley off the nose of the crank, you have to remove the guard plates and thus have to remove the pointer plate, losing your reference mark.
Dan,
That is where it is!!! I was looking for it and couldn’t find it. I will do that tomorrow.
Just doing some cleaning and checking of everything while I am in it. Going to change out the speedo cable (again) while it is on jack stands.
Now, I need a 38mm socket. Ordering it from Amazon. Found the same one at Home Depot for more. So , ordering online it is.
Going to play games with Gary now. Father Time...
Thanks for the help and encouragement.
Mike
Gary is now my official grease monkey... he got grease on his chin helping today. Funny, he hates getting dirty.
EED874CD-50EB-4AA4-9774-AEA690A1771F.jpeg
 
Dan,
That is where it is!!! I was looking for it and couldn’t find it. I will do that tomorrow.
Just doing some cleaning and checking of everything while I am in it. Going to change out the speedo cable (again) while it is on jack stands.
Now, I need a 38mm socket. Ordering it from Amazon. Found the same one at Home Depot for more. So , ordering online it is.
Going to play games with Gary now. Father Time...
Thanks for the help and encouragement.
Mike
Gary is now my official grease monkey... he got grease on his chin helping today. Funny, he hates getting dirty.
View attachment 24269

Gotta hand down that X1/9 knowledge and skill to the youngsters! :)
 
Okay, put the intake plenum back on and there is one vacuum hose for the life of me I can’t seem to find it’s place. It goes from under the plenum near the throttle and then somewhere.
Please help...
I took pics of everything prior to starting but didn’t think of this guy.

Mike

A790D8C7-7C65-4C68-858D-3C93484CF7A4.jpeg
113BBB42-7D80-462E-9309-8316A6FC5B91.jpeg
 
Okay, put the intake plenum back on and there is one vacuum hose for the life of me I can’t seem to find it’s place. It goes from under the plenum near the throttle and then somewhere.
Please help...
I took pics of everything prior to starting but didn’t think of this guy.

Mike

View attachment 24278 View attachment 24279
Do you have a hose on the dist. vac advance? Looks like that's where this one goes.
 
Mike... I never had one on the distributor advance.
Okay. Looks like I learned something today.
That is why it just pulled out when the plenum came out. It has never been connected properly.
Mike
 
Mike,
Looking at the hose it doesn’t look like it would go there. It curves across the engine naturally. Maybe I connected another hose in the wrong place.
Mike
 
So... let me see if I have this correct.
The vacuum hose under the plenum goes to the distributor advance even though the hose is more than double the required length.
I will look at it and see if I can figure out why the hose is so long. Maybe it goes through Jersey before it gets to the distributor.
I have a route in mind to test.
Thanks,
Mike
 
That line definitely attaches to distributor advance diaphragm. It's likely been off so long it took a heat set the way it was lying. That line goes in the clip attached to the top of the cam cover near the oil fill which requires more hose length.
 
Last edited:
Mike,
Looking at the hose it doesn’t look like it would go there. It curves across the engine naturally. Maybe I connected another hose in the wrong place.
Mike
If it is connected on the center underside of the intake, it is most likely the distributor vacuum line. If you pull it off the intake and rotate it 180 degrees and reconnect it, it will have a nice natural curve in the other direction. This reorientation would send it towards the distributor. The distributor vacuum hose is fairly long. If you make the vacuum hoses too short, they kink rather than achieve a smooth bend.
 
Back
Top