Brayden_connolly
True Classic
You can spend just as much time and money building a 120hp Fiat motor as you will swapping to the K20, it just depends on which rabbit hole you wanna jump into.
To swap or not to swap
- Thread starter Chris in Canada
- Start date
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I have not done a Honda swap, but from what I've read it would be tempting to consider the "B" engine option. Seems a more manageable project for the money. However any engine swap will be much more work and money than one would think.
My earlier point about either option (swap vs HP SOHC) was relative to what I understand the goals to be in this current example. The opening post stated he wants to use the car as his primary transportation, be reliable/dependable, for normal street use, with lots of miles a day. To me that is neither a engine-swapped nor modified car of any type. Especially not a old one that has little to no support for service/repairs. But part of that opinion might depend on one's lifestyle. If you happen to have a career that does not require you to be somewhere specific, on time, you don't have other people depending you to do something, your hands and clothes don't have to be clean when you finally get there, etc, etc, then sure...roll the dice every day and see what new adventure your car provides this time. As far as I know that only applies to a 16 year old living at home working part time as a dishwasher (or equivalent).
My earlier point about either option (swap vs HP SOHC) was relative to what I understand the goals to be in this current example. The opening post stated he wants to use the car as his primary transportation, be reliable/dependable, for normal street use, with lots of miles a day. To me that is neither a engine-swapped nor modified car of any type. Especially not a old one that has little to no support for service/repairs. But part of that opinion might depend on one's lifestyle. If you happen to have a career that does not require you to be somewhere specific, on time, you don't have other people depending you to do something, your hands and clothes don't have to be clean when you finally get there, etc, etc, then sure...roll the dice every day and see what new adventure your car provides this time. As far as I know that only applies to a 16 year old living at home working part time as a dishwasher (or equivalent).
Chris in Canada
True Classic
I’ve driven my X daily from late May to late October for the past 5 years! 45km’s each way as well as wknds. The first 3 years with the original 1.3 and the last 2 with a used, unknown history fi 1.5 that I bolted all the 1.3 externals(carb)on. New belt/idler/cam seal and a set of plugs that’s it. It has NEVER left me stranded even when my alternator crapped out just as I left work as a thunderstorm started and I needed lights, wipers and defrost all on full it got me home!!! Now I have gone over just about every part of the car mechanically??? Just wanted some input from the people that know! I don’t baby the car either!!!I have not done a Honda swap, but from what I've read it would be tempting to consider the "B" engine option. Seems a more manageable project for the money. However any engine swap will be much more work and money than one would think.
My earlier point about either option (swap vs HP SOHC) was relative to what I understand the goals to be in this current example. The opening post stated he wants to use the car as his primary transportation, be reliable/dependable, for normal street use, with lots of miles a day. To me that is neither a engine-swapped nor modified car of any type. Especially not a old one that has little to no support for service/repairs. But part of that opinion might depend on one's lifestyle. If you happen to have a career that does not require you to be somewhere specific, on time, you don't have other people depending you to do something, your hands and clothes don't have to be clean when you finally get there, etc, etc, then sure...roll the dice every day and see what new adventure your car provides this time. As far as I know that only applies to a 16 year old living at home working part time as a dishwasher (or equivalent).
I love European cars and really like the idea of European drivetrain. The idea of putting a Japanese engine into something Italian just doesn't seem right. Although of course there is almost always an exception to everything. How about a Mazda 3 2-3 Turbo 1.6 engine? I don't know how the size compares to the engine bay but they can be had for not a lot of money and the parts are readily available. They're basically a turboed older Mazda Miata engine. Getting 200 horsepower out of them isn't a big deal and they are quite compact. If you can get the 1.8 normally aspirated to fit you can always turbo it as the Ford Festiva guys have proven. Not a lot of money, not a lot of electronic complication to get the thing running and quite reliable and fun.
If you want to go complicated, then I like the idea of the drivetrain out of a Fiesta ST. 1.6 Turbo with a lot of horsepower and torque but much like the Abarth engine conversion, you have to mess with electronics. Apparently HP tuners can disable everything and get the engine going but I don't know. It just looks like a compact package that is modern with a six-speed and it could be quite cool. I think the Mazda engine would make life so much easier.
If you want to go complicated, then I like the idea of the drivetrain out of a Fiesta ST. 1.6 Turbo with a lot of horsepower and torque but much like the Abarth engine conversion, you have to mess with electronics. Apparently HP tuners can disable everything and get the engine going but I don't know. It just looks like a compact package that is modern with a six-speed and it could be quite cool. I think the Mazda engine would make life so much easier.
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
you've used the car as a daily for five years and had no mechanical issues... that's kind of a testament to the robustness of the drivetrain, so why would you think of changing it?
Plus any swap...honda, toyota, mazda, hyabusa...all means VOR (Vehicle Off Road) while the cutting / shutting / figuring out is done.
If you want a bit more power, easy. Buy ANOTHER good used 1500 engine for cheap, it's a core to rebuild...if it comes without a head or cam or exhaust manifold don't worry as you certainly don't want to re use any of those. The car can stay on the road as your daily driver continuing to be reliable , cheap and fun transportation while you tinker away in the colder months of the year an build yourself an engine that's within your skill level and budget...
Plenty of information on this site about reliable ways to improve the engine to whatever level you're comfortable with.
SteveC
Plus any swap...honda, toyota, mazda, hyabusa...all means VOR (Vehicle Off Road) while the cutting / shutting / figuring out is done.
If you want a bit more power, easy. Buy ANOTHER good used 1500 engine for cheap, it's a core to rebuild...if it comes without a head or cam or exhaust manifold don't worry as you certainly don't want to re use any of those. The car can stay on the road as your daily driver continuing to be reliable , cheap and fun transportation while you tinker away in the colder months of the year an build yourself an engine that's within your skill level and budget...
Plenty of information on this site about reliable ways to improve the engine to whatever level you're comfortable with.
SteveC
I hear what you're saying, I just think he's looking for something with a lot more juice instead of having an older engine design that has peaky horsepower when it's built up. Hence why I think the Mazda option is quite good, if it fits! I don't mind when people think out of the box and don't mind putting a little bit of work into something different, in fact a lot of the time I totally support it. I hear a thema turbo engine would fit but that would be a difficult thing to deal with unless you're living in Europe. I say let the conversion begin!
darwoodious
Darin Nelson
I'm not even finished doing my K20 swap - mostly because I did a total body restoration in the process, which isn't necessary but since I was already there, I went for it. I can only give you my own to-date impressions/experiences of my own K20 swap so here goes...
First, it is very expensive to do - not ridiculously expensive considering how awesome the X1/9 is, but it isn't as cheap as the car you bought. I paid $1500 for a very nice '76 chassis with an original 1300 that ran with very little rust, but it still needed some work as they all do - but I digress. The point is that the $1500 for the car was the cheapest thing in this entire project. I'll call out what I paid for some of the bits.
* $3300: K20 drivetrain from ebay
* $3800: MWB K20 kit
* $700: Hondata ECU upgrade
-------
$7800
Then you're gonna wanna upgrade tires, wheels and brakes. You should probably upgrade your suspension since too (you are going from 80hp to 200+hp) so...
* $450: Prima vented front brake upgrade kit
* $600: Sportiva Wheels 15x7
* $360: 195/45R15 tires x4
* $1800: MWB KONI coil overs (you can get something similar but cheaper elsewhere...)
-------
$3210
Total: $11,010.
FWIW, I've spent much more on my project and that's totally OK, but I think it's important to know what you're getting into from a cost perspective. I suppose you can save some here and there by doing it yourself, but really not all that much. It all depends on how much power you want out of your build. The car is very small and light to begin with but was obviously underpowered - especially here in the US. It is an amazing chassis which is why we're all here doing this. I've spent, so far, twice what I've even called out here (probably more, but I only keep records for insurance purposes) and I'm not even done yet. It'd probably be cheaper to buy an Alfa 4C by the time I'm done but... no - I don't want that. I want an X1/9 with 200+ HP.
If you just want another 50% more HP, it might be quicker/easier to setup a hot 1500. Some days I wish I had done that, but I've chosen my path.
No matter what you chose, it'll all be good. The X1/9 is a sweet ride. I still think it's one one the best cars ever, and I own and drive a 2018 Shelby GT350 (way too much car for almost any road you'll ever drive).
First, it is very expensive to do - not ridiculously expensive considering how awesome the X1/9 is, but it isn't as cheap as the car you bought. I paid $1500 for a very nice '76 chassis with an original 1300 that ran with very little rust, but it still needed some work as they all do - but I digress. The point is that the $1500 for the car was the cheapest thing in this entire project. I'll call out what I paid for some of the bits.
* $3300: K20 drivetrain from ebay
* $3800: MWB K20 kit
* $700: Hondata ECU upgrade
-------
$7800
Then you're gonna wanna upgrade tires, wheels and brakes. You should probably upgrade your suspension since too (you are going from 80hp to 200+hp) so...
* $450: Prima vented front brake upgrade kit
* $600: Sportiva Wheels 15x7
* $360: 195/45R15 tires x4
* $1800: MWB KONI coil overs (you can get something similar but cheaper elsewhere...)
-------
$3210
Total: $11,010.
FWIW, I've spent much more on my project and that's totally OK, but I think it's important to know what you're getting into from a cost perspective. I suppose you can save some here and there by doing it yourself, but really not all that much. It all depends on how much power you want out of your build. The car is very small and light to begin with but was obviously underpowered - especially here in the US. It is an amazing chassis which is why we're all here doing this. I've spent, so far, twice what I've even called out here (probably more, but I only keep records for insurance purposes) and I'm not even done yet. It'd probably be cheaper to buy an Alfa 4C by the time I'm done but... no - I don't want that. I want an X1/9 with 200+ HP.
If you just want another 50% more HP, it might be quicker/easier to setup a hot 1500. Some days I wish I had done that, but I've chosen my path.
No matter what you chose, it'll all be good. The X1/9 is a sweet ride. I still think it's one one the best cars ever, and I own and drive a 2018 Shelby GT350 (way too much car for almost any road you'll ever drive).
ghostdancing
True Classic
what about a 1,8 liters motor (fiat linea block)?
kmead
Old enough to know better
Are you referencing the 138 based twin cam engine?
Not found in north America. I only wanted to mention stuff that can be sourced in quite a few places.
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
Congratulations Darin on laying it out clearly...
I've always said a K20 will cost you 20K.
SteveC
darwoodious
Darin Nelson
Yep... worth every penny.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Chris in Canada
True Classic
I remember seeing an X with a 2.8 v6 Chevy in it!! Half the motor was in the rear trunk!!
Is the k20 that much smaller?
Omg talk about a hellish conversion
Chris in Canada
True Classic
One question, why a 2.8? It looked hideous!!
rx1900
1981 X1/9
Why not ? I certainly dont reckon it looked "hideous"
Sure doesn't look to me like "half the motor was in the rear trunk"
i've seen worse swaps.......