dllubin
Don
They also do that now with model railroad locomotives using sounds specific to the particular prototype as a function of throttle. They also throw in the bells and whistles (literally).
To swap or not to swap
- Thread starter Chris in Canada
- Start date
TonyK
True Classic
I will weigh in here with the Abarth 1.4L turbo Swap. Since it is newer technology it is more complicated than the K20 or K24 popular swap versions. To me putting a Japan engine in an Italian car is a sin. My thought, my want and I appreciate all the work and development that goes into the K Swap variants, just not what I am looking for. In the words of Bob Martin, any engine can be put into any car if the will is there. I will not say that the Abarth swap is easier or better than any other swap, it is what I wanted plain and simple. As for costs, that will depend on the donor car because there are a lot of parts required from a road car to make this engine work. So depending on the source of parts, a whole car or the parts required to run the engine that is the main cost. Harvesting them takes time and then removing what is not needed takes even more time. There is a lot of fabrication which again takes time. The end result of how the car runs afterward, is, in my mind amazing over stock. I am not saying that this swap will blow the doors off of a K series swapped car, it will put a smile on your face, the sound, incredible. With all of this said April 12th is 'D' day, Bob Martin will be arriving at my house with his black stripped out Dallara and we will spend the next 10 days working on his X1/9 installing and modifying where required to put the Fiat 500 Abarth engine in his car. I will be posting as much as I can on the work being done in the 500 ( Nuova 500) form of XWeb. I have to update the making some parts thread as I have spent the last few weeks finishing off the to do list. ( What I have at home here is basically a kit ). This 2nd version and I have a better handle on material costs and what is needed as I now have a direction to follow rather than trial and error engineering, plus Bob is a buddy and I am using up what I have laying around my shop to parts of his build to keep the costs low. As Bob would say, I am a retired Army guy and don't have a lot of money to throw around.
So, in closing, the Abarth X1/9 version 2 will be starting soon, if you are interested, take a few moments and review our progress.
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada.
So, in closing, the Abarth X1/9 version 2 will be starting soon, if you are interested, take a few moments and review our progress.
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada.
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kmead
Old enough to know better
Yes with a Beta or Scorpion transmission. It is another very tight fit solution, fairly heavy and can be upgraded into the 150hp category with plenty of money. It still requires cutting etc.
There are a bunch of them done up this way in Australia that are also done up to look like the Abarth Rally version of the X, some really amazing examples to be seen.
There is a good thread about engine swaps which run the gamut, it covers the variations of this engine. It is one I have been interested in but I ended up becoming turned off on this option once I looked into more of the details.
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/dohc-2-0-conversion-what-do-you-think.35141/
GregS
ProjectX
I like the idea of the TonyK Abarth engine swap, but I don't like how complicated the electronics are to make it work. I have been wondering if it is feasible to run the 1.4 engine with the variable valve timing and lift dissabled, it hydaulically operates the inlet valves, and if it had the full hydraulic pressure applied all the time the inlet valves would be opened to full lift by the cam all the time, just like the exhaust valves are. The engine may loose some of it's flexibility and economy, but it should be a less complicated installation with an aftermarket engine management system instead of the original Fiat system.
Is this a totally dumb idea?
Is this a totally dumb idea?
TonyK
True Classic
I think you will find that there are more problems that will present it's self should you try and go this route. A full race cam will not idle well if at all. There will be times that at higher boost levels more mixture than the engine can tolerate will be crammed in to the cylinders. Fueling and timing maps will have to be made an through out this experiment the chances of blowing an engine will be great. Once there then what? Rebuild the engine and start over again or hunker down and run the engine with the ECU like intended. The answer is that Fiat Chrysler supply a box ECU for swappers and racers tagged to the original ECU Vin number. Heck even a crate engine would be a good option as well. But for some reason unlike Ford and GM who offer crate engines this seems to be a low priority that could be a money maker in the end for the company. The way I see it, the more engines running the more parts are sold, the more money is made. Possibly I am missing something here, currently it eludes me.
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada.
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada.
kmead
Old enough to know better
Correct me if I am off the mark here, although some aftermarket engine management systems are set up to trigger VVT type systems, I don't think they are set up to deal with the Air system Fiat has created which is very different from the typical shifting of the cam relative to base cam timing.
I doubt you could get the engine to run at all without the Air system enabled.
I do wish they would do as Tony suggests and offer a ECU for racing/swapping. Currently there are a ton of Fiat Air based engines out there which can only go into another 500 which frankly are not blowing up engines in relation to the number of crashed 500 engines sitting on warehouse shelves. They are really cheap compared to many other engines you see for sale.
I doubt you could get the engine to run at all without the Air system enabled.
I do wish they would do as Tony suggests and offer a ECU for racing/swapping. Currently there are a ton of Fiat Air based engines out there which can only go into another 500 which frankly are not blowing up engines in relation to the number of crashed 500 engines sitting on warehouse shelves. They are really cheap compared to many other engines you see for sale.
I'd really look at the fiesta st drivetrain...if ones available and cheap. It's a great package if it can be programmed to work.
kmead
Old enough to know better
The Fiesta 1.6l turbo motor is a nice unit. Quite light as it is all aluminum, pretty small and nicely balanced from the perspective of hp and torque. I don’t know how many are available or if Ford offers a version of it that is standalone.
The biggest immediate issue is that the track width of the ST is 57.1” and the X at the rear is 53.1” This may be no issue at all depending on the actual width of the engine and transmission assembly or no more an issue than the existing swaps suffer in regards to the drivers side frame rail.
Worth thinking about no doubt.
While we are suggesting adding lightness comparatively, another very interesting engine is the 1.3l Suzuki G13b twin cam which is a remarkably strong engine (forged crank) which can be massaged in normally aspirated form to deliver 130hp and with a turbo close to 200. All aluminum and very light, the big negative is that they are getting rare as they have been out of production for quite some time. It is a very nice engine which matches the character of the X.
Of course both of these options suffer the basic issue that they are not Italian which for some is a very reasonable and passionate desire.
The biggest immediate issue is that the track width of the ST is 57.1” and the X at the rear is 53.1” This may be no issue at all depending on the actual width of the engine and transmission assembly or no more an issue than the existing swaps suffer in regards to the drivers side frame rail.
Worth thinking about no doubt.
While we are suggesting adding lightness comparatively, another very interesting engine is the 1.3l Suzuki G13b twin cam which is a remarkably strong engine (forged crank) which can be massaged in normally aspirated form to deliver 130hp and with a turbo close to 200. All aluminum and very light, the big negative is that they are getting rare as they have been out of production for quite some time. It is a very nice engine which matches the character of the X.
Of course both of these options suffer the basic issue that they are not Italian which for some is a very reasonable and passionate desire.
Integrale
True Classic
The Suzuki SX4 was a joint project between Suzuki and Fiat so it would have some Italian cred.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I agree that any engine swap should seek to reduce overall weight (or at least add as little as possible). It sort of negates some of the swap's benefits if the vehicle is heavier, not only in terms of improving engine performance, but also handling, braking, etc. If you are going through all of the work to do the swap, you might as well maximize your options by utilizing a all aluminum engine and trans with a fairly light weight.
Along the lines of the Ford Fiesta engine suggestion. There are a number of Ford engine options form various models that are very popular engines for swaps and kit cars in Europe (and some in the US). I don't recall much mention of these in respect to a X swap (apologies if I've missed this suggestion before). However I know nothing about them; which ones are readily available here, how they compare in terms of size and weight (are they all aluminum?), how well they might lend to a X swap, etc. But they make a lot of power for the displacement, are very reliable, and have a lot of aftermarket support. And I'd think they would be reasonably affordable (if from US models of cars). Although none of the US versions may be anything like the European Fords, I don't know?