Tourque spec for oil sump

[Bjorn Nilson]

I am fitting a new gasket on the oil sump. It is a cork type gasket (wich I don't like but the only type currently available). I've searched manuals and the forum for torque specification for the 20 M6 bolts with no success. Can somebody help me?

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Sorry, I don't know the torque spec off hand. You might look at generic torque charts based on the fastener's size.

Also if you really want a gasket other than cork, get one for a newer Fiat with the same gasket (e.g. Uno). I purchased a few from a European supplier; readily available and a good price. I might still have the part number if you like. I know the alloy sumps on the X are intended to use a thin paper gasket and the thicker cork or "rubber" gaskets are intended for the stamped steel pans. But I still prefer the thicker (rubber) ones personally.

 

[Bjorn Nilson]

Sorry, I don't know the torque spec off hand. You might look at generic torque charts based on the fastener's size.

Also if you really want a gasket other than cork, get one for a newer Fiat with the same gasket (e.g. Uno). I purchased a few from a European supplier; readily available and a good price. I might still have the part number if you like. I know the alloy sumps on the X are intended to use a thin paper gasket and the thicker cork or "rubber" gaskets are intended for the stamped steel pans. But I still prefer the thicker (rubber) ones personally.

Yes Rubber is my first choice as well but his time I will use cork as I am in a hurry. I had a bad day today when I realized that the X1/9 oil pan internal splash shield(?) didn't fit the oil return tube on the UT engine. I had to remove a part from the shield to make it fit. I also noticed that the torque spec for the oil pump must be wrong in the X1/9 service manual (83Nm). This is far too much for a M8 bolt that normally should be torqued to 27-30Nm, and surprisingly I found no torque specs for the oil pan.
I will glue the cork oil pan gasket but correct torque is still important to prevent leakage.

 

[EricH]

I also noticed that the torque spec for the oil pump must be wrong in the X1/9 service manual (83Nm). This is far too much for a M8 bolt that normally should be torqued to 27-30Nm

That wouldn't be the first or only time that the manual was wrong.... but even 27-30 seems a bit high to me. I can't go search online bolt torque charts right now, but generally they're a good answer for most situations (an exception being critical oscillating loads like big end and main bearing caps), and if I was at all uncomfortable I'd use higher grade bolts torqued to the correspondingly higher spec.
Or you could wait for @Rupunzell to chime in..... If there's a reason for an unusual torque spec here she'll know about it.

and surprisingly I found no torque specs for the oil pan.
I will glue the cork oil pan gasket but correct torque is still important to prevent leakage.

The factory configurations are cork or rubber with stamped oil pans against the cast block and paper gaskets for cast oil pans against the cast block, so you may not find any specs that are right for you. The standard torque spec for m6 bolts is very unlikely to be right because that's assuming more tension in the bolt then your soft gasket can resist.

If I were doing this and I were sure that both the pan and block surfaces were flat, I'd go with a paper gasket.

If you're sure you want a soft gasket, it's most important that all the bolts be torqued equally and enough that they don't back out. If it doesn't seal, torque them all a bit more, keeping the torques even across all the bolts. I've done this before, it works, but like I said..... I'd be using a paper gasket unless I knew that I had to work around a warped surface.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

the X1/9 oil pan internal splash shield(?) didn't fit the oil return tube on the UT engine. I had to remove a part from the shield to make it fit.

That brings up a question for your UT installation. I seem to recall the UT's oil pick up on the oil pump isn't at the correct location for the X's oil (sump) pan...if that's what you are doing. Worth checking if you haven't already.

Did you find my message in your "in box"?

 

[Rupunzell]

X1/9 oil pan should be aluminum. They should be used with the "paper" gasket material. The "rubberized cork" gasket is for sheetmetal oil pans with pockets in the sheetmetal for the rubberized cork material to seat into. Both gasket materials work, but for a stock x1/9 aluminum oil pan the "paper" works better as it does not compress and settle in the same way as the rubber-cork gasket. What is important, flatness of the sealing surfaces. There are two aluminum seal carrier plates at the front and back of the cast iron block that have a gasket between the plate and block. Common to have some of that gasket to protrude into the oil pan sealing area, trim that off with a razor blade if there is protrusion. Do apply gasket sealing aid Hylomar is a good choice for "paper" gasket. For rubberized cork, no gasket sealing aid as that stuff is designed to absorb oil, expand to aid sealing. As for torque on M6 screws, grade 8.8 is typically 11 to 12 Nm with light oil. This could be a bit much for a rubberized-cork gasket as they compress more than paper. There is a tendency for rubberized-cork gaskets to compress removing tension from the oil pan screws causing them to fall out and there is can be a re-torque cycle to compensate for gasket compression.

Oil pump screws are M8, grade 8.8. Torque should be about 24Nm lightly oiled. That torque spec of (83Nm) is too much, assured to twist off the M8 cap screw.


Bernice

 

[Rupunzell]

If a cork-rubberized oil pan gasket is used, Do NOT apply glue. Glue will clog up the cork-rubberized gasket causing leaks. That kind of gasket material is designed to absorb oil, expand to seal. Applying glue defeats the design as intended.

As for rushing, best way to cause a disaster. All it takes is one tiny item to go wrong and catastrophic results are a very real possibility.
Don't rush, the the time and apply the resources required to get it done properly first time. This is one way to keep "Murphy" from becoming reality.


Bernice

Yes Rubber is my first choice as well but his time I will use cork as I am in a hurry.

I will glue the cork oil pan gasket but correct torque is still important to prevent leakage.

 

[Bjorn Nilson]

Don't rush, the the time and apply the resources required to get it done properly first time.

Too late I am afraid. Had a very, very bad day/evening. Had the oil pan mounted completely against your advice, using a combo of these products:

Did not use the torque wrench, but had the oil pan back by turning the bolts evenly in many rounds as the cork/rubber gasket pressurized more and more at every round. Then had crossmember, engine mounts, gear linkage etc back, and at last the clutch hydraulic. I then realized that the clutch operating arm was out of position, the arm was positioned to high to fit the hydraulic push rod. I tried to push the arm in position, even smacked it with a hammer with no success. Once again removed the gearbox and had a look at the release bearing, and it was out of position just like I suspected. The HELIX release bearing is partly made of a plastic material that snaps on to the operating fork, but obviously not hard enough as it fell out from position.
I've had better Saturday evenings.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

The HELIX release bearing is partly made of a plastic material that snaps on to the operating fork, but obviously not hard enough as it fell out from position.

I've also had issues with the X's T.O. bearing's two little retaining "clips" (pic below) not staying in place. Trying to 'tighten' them a little didn't really help so I bought new ones, which weren't much better. Not the greatest design for the T.O. bearing assembly in my opinion.

 

[Bjorn Nilson]

Not the greatest design for the T.O. bearing assembly in my opinion.

I agree. My old bearing (Sachs) had that type of retainer which actually was not necessary as the bearing stays perfectly in position even without it. -A very good construction I would say. The new Helix bearing is completely different with plastic snappers that hooks on to the fork and that's a very poor design and that didn't work out very well. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo of it.
Now at my second try, I drilled a hole in the plastic part of the new bearing to have the standard retainer seated. I am back on track to finish my UT build.