Transmission oil recommendations??

Xweb · Feb 19, 2009

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Transmission oil recommendations??

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 31 2001 at 3:00 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]What's the best transmission fluid for my 79X?

Shifting is pretty rough (especially into 1st and 2nd) and gets worse as the car heats up.

I'm going as easy as I can on them until I can PINPOINT and FIX the problem. But in the meantime...

WHAT'S THE BEST FLUID TO MINIMIZE WEAR ON THOSE GEARS AND PRESERVE THAT TRANS?!

Thanks group!

(She comin' along... starter's in, and thanks to Tony N. stalling is gone and stumble is way reduced, but not quite gone.)

Anthony G.
Red 79X
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>steve ambrose <NOSCRIPT> steve ambrose </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Redline MTL...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 31 2001, 3:40 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Hi there... not going to start the debate again..
I use Redline MTL in all the X's I work on, and it makes a huge improvement in shifting.. Hope your trans is not too far gone. I'd sure give it a try.
Steve

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Thanks Steve! Other thoughts?

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 31 2001, 4:22 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I just did a search for Redline MTL, and found all your previous posts. THANKS! Sorry, I'd didn't find those the first time I looked.

Found that post about not downshifting into first especially interesting.

You seem to know a lot about trannys... Do you work on them professionally?

I don't think my gear box is far gone, because my car is relatively low milage (30K) and it does fine once it's in gear and when I'm releasing the clutch (no slippage). It's when I have the clutch depressed, and I try to shift the stick into 2nd that I get grinding?

Is this this a clutch adjustment problem? It works fine going into 3rd 4th & 5th, with the occasional little bump here or there.

Any thoughts?

In theory, as long as I have the clutch engaged, I should be able to move the stick freely into any gear with no noise or friction whatever, right? This where I'm running into trouble...

I'm a novice. Help me out please sir.

Anthony G.
Red 79X
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Redline and 2nd Gear

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 6:34 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]From what you described, that everything works fine except grinding when engaging 2nd, and realatively low miles (30K), I suspect you have a bigger problem than you think. Some early 5 spd X1/9s ('79 and '80) have a known problem with 2nd gear synchronizers. Actually, it isn't the synchronizer, but the synchro's hub on the gear itself. The problem is the hub was not properly hardened during manufacture so the hub wears out before the synchro does. The only fix is to replace the gear. I have seen this problem on many early 5 spd X1/9s. The same problem can also occure on 1st gear.

If you read "5 spd 101" in the library you will find mention of this problem there along with a detailed description. Unfortunately, a switch to Redline will not fix this problem.

I give Redline MTL or MT90 my highest recommendation for the X1/9 transaxle. I have used MTL in my street and competition cars for more than 10 years with exceptional results. During that time I have had zero parts failures due to any issue with lubrication. This includes both street and competition customer transmissions. I also see improved synchronizer performance and life. I can not say the same for GL1.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]If this is my problem, then..??

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 11:01 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Yes, this does sound like my problem...

So..

1) Assuming I don't have the experience or the means to do it myself... About how much should I pay to get the 1st and 2nd gear syncros replaced (ballpark) without getting ripped off?

2) What brand should I get to ensure high quality?

Thanks for the great advice!

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I assume so.

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 12:41 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]There is no way to be completely sure until you tear into the gearbox, but it sure sounds like that is the case. I have seen these many times and know what the symptoms are.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve, there's more to my question! Please read last post!!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 12:46 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Oops, ...sorry...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 2:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]To answer both questions:

Cost: Replacing the synchros will not fix the problem. In fact, I'll bet the synchros are in perfect condition. It's 2nd gear that will probably have to be replaced. If you are going to have someone do the entire job (pull transmission, repair, re-install) you will first need to find someone that knows that transmission and will understand what the problem is. Most shops will just assume it needs synchros, replace them and give it back to you with the same problem. Cost can range from $500 to $1200 or more depending on what parts are required.

Brand: If you are replacing synchros, use the older style OE Fiat synchros only.

Also check on the condition of the other synchros while you are in there. Especially 3rd.

Steve


[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]OK, so let me get this straight...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 6:45 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]The synchros are probably fine, it's the gear itself that probably needs to be replaced, because the "hub" on it is mush.

So how do I ensure that the hub on the new gear that gets put on is properly hardened so this won't happen again? Where do I buy a GOOD 2nd gear?

And I assume the bulk of the cost goes into just taking the trans out and apart, yes?

If so, I may indeed want to learn to do this myself, since I only spent $800 on the car to begin with.

Is it doable for a guy who's mechanically inclined but has little experience?

I may be moving to Cali next year, so perhaps I'll try to enlist the help of one of you pros out there.

Thanks for all the advice.

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT> Tony Natoli </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]ENOUGH... ALREADY!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 8:16 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Antknee...

Go to PAW or whatever source ya got and GAMBLE 20 bucks on 3 qts. of Redline MTL.

Its like installing a new trans... Not perfect, but one HELL of an improvement.

White Fang... being a '79 also... had TERRIBLE 2nd gear woes going up or down. Two and a 1/3 qts or liters... whatever... until is started overflowing... solved MY problem completely!

If that don't work... Fedex yur trans to Steve H and let HIM get the right parts and let HIM fix it right for ya.

Well worth the expense...

Ya haveta be CRAZIER then an X-HEAD to attempt this yurself... and I'm sure there are a few on this sight.
As nuts as I am... that's one thing I WON'T attempt!

Best Regards,

Tony Natoli, Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA, http://americanx19.tripod.com/owner.htm

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Heh heh.. Alright Tony... (to Tony and Steve)

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 3:32 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I was already sold on the Redline, I'm just looking for a good source.

Speaking of which, what the heck is PAW?

There's no dealer that has Redline products out here (at least according to there website), so I have to mail order it.

So what's a good price on this stuff? Around $7 a quart?

I'm hoping that it does indeed help my 2nd gear. God knows what the PO put in it, it may not even be the right type oil!

I'm hopeful because I have no problem whatever with 2nd gear until the car warms up. Then it get bad. If Redline is that good, maybe it'll keep the tranny working like it does when it's cool? Maybe wishful thinking, but I'm doing it. What do ya think?

And lastly (I won't promise, because you know I'll find another question while I'm doing this

), a silly question:

How do I drain the tranny thoroughly without removing it? I want to get all the old oil out as best as I can, and it seems to me at first look the "filler" plug is too high to do the job.

HOW DO I DRAIN THIS THING??!

And Steve, thanks again for the detailed responses. I appreciate the time you took. I may indeed have you work on it "down the road". Are you in Cali as well?

Ciao -

PS. Tony, I'm shocked.. utterly SHOCKED that there is ANY part of an X that you are unwilling to work on!!! When I get there, we're going to take your tranny apart and put it back together just because you said that!

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 165px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]MTL Source

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 7:05 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 165px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]You might as well try the MTL before giving up on the transmission. If it helps, at best it will be a temporary solution. Eventually, the problem will resurface and you will have to do something more permenent.

The drain plug is located below the fill plug right at the bottom edge of the case. It is probably hiding below the CV joint

Drive the car for at least a half hour to get the oil as hot as possible before draining (a warm day helps). Place the car on jackstands so it is level, if you only raise one side, or just the rear, you will not completely drain the transmission. Allow it to drain for at least 30 minutes. I use a funnel with a section of rubber hose to fill the transmission.

I live in silicon valley.......east. Also known as Huntsville, Alabama.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 180px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Oops, to quick with the "reply" button.

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 7:08 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 180px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I buy Redline products from Racer Parts Wholesale.

http://racerpartswholesale.com

They have both MTL and MT90 for $8 a bottle.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 195px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]FANTASTIC!! Thank you!!!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 9:29 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 195px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Great instructions!

I'll order it today, and put it in as soon as it gets here.

Ala-bamy, huh?

There's a remote chance I'll be storing the car at my grandmother's in salt-free FL until I move to CA (I currently live in NYC, but am in WI on business until Nov).

If I do, I'll definitely look you up on the way!

My best to you.

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 195px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Just found MTL & MT-90 for $7 per quart online...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 10:17 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 195px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Go here, and happy shopping!

http://www.myoilshop.com

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT> Tony Natoli </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 210px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ya see, Antknee, yur already CONTRIBUTING!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 6:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 210px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]PAW stands for Performance Automotive Wholesale and they are well known in rodding circles... and sponsor some drag events.

They are online also... but I paid 9 dollars a qt. over the counter.

Looks like most of your other questions have been answered... although I would purchase a PUMP from Harbor Freight (online... ask for sale price) for about 4 bucks. It has a couple of suction tubes and a clip to hold the discharge hose in... Makes refilling the transaxle very quick and easy.

As far as rebuilding transaxles... HA! I used to do 3 and 4 speed GM transmissions when I worked for Cadillac many moons ago and all the special tools required made it almost impossible for a home mechanic to attempt.

In this case also, once ya split the case its apart and ya better have the time and patience... or Steve H. over for the weekend if ya ever wanna get it back together again.

Humberto in Curacao did his on his kitchen table while his girlfriend was outta town... Hasn't got it back in and running yet... but it will be VERY interesting to hear what happened. This was his FIRST attempt. He'a a bigger man than I!

Later, my friend... let us know how the Red Line works... and have you messed with the engine lately on those few other problems? I've been painting bathrooms...

Best Regards,

Tony Natoli, Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA, http://americanx19.tripod.com/owner.htm

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 225px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Trials and tribulations

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 7:09 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 225px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I remember the first transmission I tried to rebuild. It was about 20 years ago (I can't believe I can start any story that way now), I was a poor freshman college student with no money, limited mechanical experience and a broken 4 spd X1/9 transmission. Because paying someone else to do the job was out of the question, I dove into the deep end hoping I could learn to swim before I drowned. My tools consisted of a cheap socket set I got as a door prize at a car club party, a cheap combination wrench set I bought for $8 at a flea market, a couple of cheap screwdrivers and a borrowed floor jack.

I pulled the transmission in the carport of the house I was renting, all the while my roomate complaining that he had to park his Porsche 924 outside. He was serious too. The first tough lesson I learned was the Haynes manual is not particularly helpful. I ended up building it on the coffee table in the den. Not really knowing what I was looking at, I carried my suspect parts to a shade tree fiat mechanic I knew and bought some used parts from him. It took several tries to get the gearset assembled correctly. Trial and error being the only method I had.

After a week of working every evening I finally got the thing back in the car. I remember how good the feeling was to finally climb in and start the car up that first time, then how my heart sank when it took off forward when I tried to back it out of the carport. I pulled it out again and took it all back apart only to find nothing. I had no idea why selecting reverse yeilded 2nd gear. I put it back together and back in the car and still had the same problem.

I drove it for more than 6 months not using reverse until I was finally able to fix the problem. It took me several days of hard work to do the job back then. I really don't remember why it was so hard. I just remember the late nights and long hours struggling with it. Of course now it takes considerably less time and effor. I once fixed a stripped second gear on a saturday night in a hotel parking lot on a race weekend in Toledo, Ohio. It took about four hours (no air tools either).

Steve


[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT> Tony Natoli </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 240px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]OK, Antknee... if all your friends jump off a cliff...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 3 2001, 7:17 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 240px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]... are you gonna jump also?

Or are you INTELLIGENT enough to LEARN without ACTUALLY having to EXPERIENCE everything!

Thanks for the story, Steve... I have many like that one also.

(I too can start my stories with similar phrases... but it hurts too much. Let me just say this though, those 4 speed autos, were not AODs, they were dual range Hydramatics...)

Best Regards,

Tony Natoli, Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA, http://americanx19.tripod.com/owner.htm

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 240px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]OK...OK!!! I'm sufficiently scared now...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 4 2001, 12:47 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 240px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I ain't touchin' the thing!

Fluid comes out, fluid goes in. End of story.

I would like to watch a pro like Steve put one together someday though.

Great story Steve! I think we've all experienced the "painful" learning in some form or another.

Once you learn the hard way, though, you never forget!

Tone, the stumble persists, but intermittently and not as severe. The car drives beautifully for 2-3 days then stumbles for a day, then good for 2-3 days, then stumble again for a day, etc. etc. Weird!

When it stumbles, it stumbles very rhythmically, like every second, and stays that way (i.e. it's gone from smooth to stumble in the same driving session, but never from stumble to smooth. Only drives smooth again after a long rest).

Otherwise the car IS driveable and has been running noticeably better as I "re"-break it in (it's been sitting for years).

Right now working on getting the fan motor working again (it worked a couple of weeks ago, but now doesn't kick in at all as it should over 190 degrees). I just bled the system pretty well I think, and am going to try to short the fan motor tomorrow to see if it works.

Other than that, I'm putting Redline in the tranny, and Castrol Syntec 10W40 in the sump... then it's on to somewhat more minor problems (funky electrics, squeaky wheels, malfunctioning horn and wipers, etc.)

Can you believe nobody, and I mean NOBODY has a 12mm hex wrench out here to take out this oil plug?! I've been all over. Then I fashioned a makeshift one out of a filed down head of a hex screw with a bolt soldered to it, but the plug is on so tight (and without a washer -- curse the PO) that it wouldn't work (not very strong torque, but I tried. Ya gotta give me props for ingenuity). I finally had to resort to ordering one from Vick's and am waiting for it to come before I can change my oil. Jeez!

And that radiator bleeder screw is useless for a NORMAL 8mm hex wrench! I was so excited when I got the wrench, and I can't even fit it in there!! So I just jacked the rear up super high, filled the overflow bottle with 50/50, heated her up, revved the hell out of her and let gravity do it's thing. Don't think there's much air left in there. Not for lack of trying. Doesn't FIAT make ANYTHING easy?!

Don't answer that.

Oh, my friends came up with a new acronym for FIAT. Thought you would appreciate this one Tone, since it applies to both of us. I must admit, as much as I hate them for it, they got me good:

F ix
I t
A gain
T ony

ahem.

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 255px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Tony

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 4 2001, 3:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 255px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]F.I.A.Tony has been around for about as long as there have been Fiats. I figure I have heard 'em all by now.

Oh, and why the Syntec in the motor? If I was going to use a synthetic, it wouldn't be Syntec. If I remember (?) you said this is something like a '79 with low miles? If so, I wouldn't put synthetic in it then. Synthetics are bad to leak with old seals and gaskets. I would stick with a quality petrolium oil. If you really want to use synthetic, I recommend Mobil 1. Its the only thing I put in my Xs. Racecar or streetcars.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 270px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!! Steve....

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 4 2001, 8:23 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 270px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Where were you when I needed you?!

(See Aug 7th "What's the best oil...")

The concensus was that synthetics offer better protection and run cooler than any conventional oil.

Tony uses regular oil with duralube and that works for him. But even he was of the mind that sythetic might offer the same benefits.

Help me out! It's not to late to return my Syntec back to Walmart and exchange it for Mobil 1 or regular oil!
(I haven't gotten the damn oil plug off yet! Maybe it was fate.)

I THINK my car has 30K miles on it. That's what the odometer says, and that's what the PO claimed. But I'm just not sure... I've been suspecting this lately, since my car seems oddly worn in some places and not in others (ex. the hoses in the engine seemed very unworn, yet the alternator and some electrical wires seemed altered or replaced, or crooked bumber and slightly misaligned hood, yet rest of body seems in very good shape, etc.) Anyway...

So do I really need to be that weary of leaky seals and gaskets? Yikes!

They find any weakness at all, eh? Then I'll be up the creek?

And why ELSE conventional oil instead of sythetic? Are there other drawbacks to sythetics/positives to conventional in my case? It struck me that sythetics would be far superior in preserving my car. Is this not the case?

And if sythetic, why Mobil 1 over Castrol? Do tell!!

Would a mix be OK/appropriate/the best bet?

I excitedly await your reply!

I am an eager student! Tell me what you know!

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 285px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Synful

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 5 2001, 7:09 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 285px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I do recommend synthetic oils in most cases. They do out perform petrolium oils. As I noted, I use Mobil 1 synthetic in both my race X and my street X and could not be happier with the results. If you had a fresh motor, I would tell you to using nothing but a quality synthetic. The reason I questioned the use of synthetic in your car was age. Synthetics are very prone to leak and 20 year old seals and gaskets are likely to do a poor job of keeping the synthetic off your garage floor. However, any quality petrolium oil will provide a long life for your X if you properly change the oil on regular intervals, along with the air filter and other regular maintenance. I got 170K miles out of my old '77 1300 X (former daily driver) on plain old Castrol 20/50 petrolium.

My street X, a '74 1300, is an 8500 rpm screamer that is driven very hard when its driven. It also see regular autocrossing and track events. That motor is spared no mercy. The Mobil 1 has help this motor provide many years of reliable service with no problems. The same with my racecar.

And I have not had or heard good things about Castrol Syntec. I have not been able to verify it yet, but I have reason to believe that Castrol only markets this product, its not of their manufacture. The same oil is sold under several different name brands and primarly as a low cost synthetic.

Steve


[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]You got it.

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 8:22 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Yes, the gear is most likely the problem, but again, no way of knowing until its apart on the bench. But, again, I am making an assumption. It could still be a bad synchronizer, but I have never seen it on such a low mileage car.

This problem seems to be limited to a relatively small number of '79 and '80 models. (Probably just a single run of improperly hardened gears) If you buy a new gear you will probably not have the problem re-occur. Or, you can buy a good used gear. To ensure getting a good one, I like to use 4 spd 2nds. They are a direct replacement and 4 spds never had the problem.

Labor is the major cost in such a repair. I just finished a light rebuild of a 5 spd today. It only required about $200 in parts. Labor total was $300 (for a bench job) so the entire job as about $500. The customer still has to install it and add fluid (another $40). If they had brought me the whole car instead of just the transmission it would have run just over $800.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Oh, and by the way...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 31 2001, 4:25 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I want the best trans oil anyway, regardless of it's influence on the problem -- so THANKS for the recommendation!

Anthony G.
Red 79X
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT> Mac </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I'm still just a layman, but...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 31 2001, 6:43 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I now have rebuilt an X tranny, have a basic knowledge of the innards, and have used GL-1, MTL and even a couple of things in the past that no one will ever get me to talk about!!

My vote is also with Redline MTL. It's the best there is, just my opinion of course. Folks laugh but I miss the smell of GL-1. It's permeating aroma had long become an integral part of "the scent of a Fiat" to me. The MTL doesn't smell like anything really. What I don't miss about the GL-1 is the gloppiness and how it felt like I was shifting a tractor on cold days. The MTL really changed my tranny's attitude!

There are just a couple things I would also point out: the GL-1 should be drained out of the tranny as completely and utterly as possible before putting Redline in. Haven't tried it but hear they just don't mix too well. Even better, as was my case, would be to change during a rebuild, so ALL the GL-1 is gone and even the gaskets & seals will have never seen anything but the Redline you will add when done. The other thing? MTL is thinner than GL-1, and some small degree of seepage from the tranny gaskets can occur. As long as it is not blatantly excessive leakage, it is not too big a deal. On this note, if you live in a hotter climate, consider using Redline MT-90 (90 weight) instead of MTL.

There's my 2 centavos!

Peace, -Mac.



[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Greg Barron <NOSCRIPT> Greg Barron </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]redline oil

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]August 31 2001, 10:01 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I just spoke with the people at redline today and they recommend MT-90 for the exxey tranny. I bought some today and finished putting in the new tranny, and boy does she shift nice. In addition, I have reverse again!!!

Looking on the redline MT-90 bottle, it states that it is an appropriate replacement for any tranny that uses GL-1 oil.

So what is the difference between MTL and MT-90?

Greg

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]MTL and MT90

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 6:53 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]The difference between MTL and MT90:

MTL is a 70W80 GL-4 gear oil (5w30/10w30 engine oil viscosity). It was Redline's first ultra-light manual transmission lubricant.

MT90 is a 75W90 GL-4 gear oil. It has a slightly higher viscosity than MTL.

I recommend MTL for street and autocross applications and MT90 for road racing applications.

I use MTL in my autocross car and street cars.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]What's the disadvantage of...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 11:07 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]using MT90 in a street X then?

Why MTL over MT90 specifically?

Just curious.

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Why...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 12:37 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]In theory, you want to use the lightest possible lubricant to get the job done. A lighter lubricant reduces pumping losses, improves oil circulation and synchronizer performance. MTL provides more than adequate lubrication so the heavier MT90 is not necessary.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Great answer!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 12:41 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]I'm learning every day!

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Thanks, Mac!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 11:03 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT> Mac </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]thank the forum, it's where I learned all those things! <nt>

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 11:08 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Thanks forum! So anybody recommend...

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 1 2001, 11:17 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]where to get a good buy on MTL?

Possibly I need a good mail order place.. since from the looks of their site, they don't have a dealer near me.

(Unless there's a national chain store that carries it, which I doubt.)

Oh boy, oh boy... new juice for my car!

Anthony G.
Red 79X, north of Chicago
30K, owned for 2 months!
little rust, but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Damon G <NOSCRIPT> Damon G </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mobiltrans SHC50 <long, good>

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 4 2001, 6:23 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
... Mobil SHC50 is the best you can buy ...

A couple of years back I went about searching for factory spec gear oil and couldn't find any.

The issue with most gear oil, as many of you may know, is that it's got sulphur and phosphus addatives, and these will attack/corrode/EAT the brass synchros in the X gearbox. Now the real problem comes in finding oil without the sulfur and phos. They make up the "EP"
'extreme pressure' addative that lets gear oil be used in hypoid-type (conventional ring&pinion) applications.
Since the X doesn't have a hypoid ring & pinion, EP
is not needed (in fact detrimental.)

Most gear oil you will find on the shelf is rated "GL5" which is pretty stout for gear oil. GL5 has more Sulphur and Phos than GL4, which has more than GL3, etc.

...cutting to the chase, I spoke with a local major
oil distributor, who forwarded me (on his dime) to
the mobil application hotline. The engineer that I spoke with was very helpful, and familiar with the
corrosion of brass caused by the EP addatives of phos and sulfur. He pointed me to Mobiltrans SHC50. It's a synthetic oil, 50weight on the engine oil scale which works out to 80weight on a gear oil scale.

I picked up a jug of the stuff (5 gallon is the smallest quantity available, about $100) and the
fellow at the distributor asked what kind of bulldozer I had. Odd question, 'eh? Well the stuff is primarilly used for truck transmissions. The label on the jug lists a service life of 250,000 (not a typo) miles in Eaton Roadranger gearboxes, and I believe 500,000 miles in Rockwell units. (we're talking over-the-road semis, as well as huge construction equipment here! How long would it take to drive a bulldozer 500,000 miles?!?
So basically it will last forever in a light duty X tranny...

The stuff is 100% synthetic and a funky bluish color. When I did the first fluid change on my 86 X, it was like driving a new machine. Tranny really felt great, not at all balky as it was (65,000 miles on it).

Only drawback is that it's $100+ for 5 gallons. If you do want to try it I would offer to ship out enough for you so you wouldnt have to fork over the big bucks.

-d

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Fascinating!

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 4 2001, 7:26 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
I almost didn't see this post. It was sitting down there all by itself.

Mobiltrans SHC50 huh? I am completely unfamiliar with this product, but it sure sounds neat. I really do like Mobil's synthetic motor oils (mobil 1), so I am not surprized to find out they make a quality synthetic gear oil.

Regarding the EP issue with the X1/9: I should point out that there is no brass in an X1/9 transmission. None.... Zero... Zip... nada... The synchronizers are made from a soft steel alloy and coated with a friction material. Redline describes their MTL product is a GL4 rated gear oil for use in manual transmissions so it does not have the EP additive found in GL5. Redline's literature states that all of their manual transmission products (MTL, MT90 and some others) are synchronizer friendly. I should also point out, again, that in more than 10 years of use, I have found that MTL only extends synchronizer life.

The Fiat 124 Coupe/Spider does have brass snychronizer rings. So you must be careful what you put in those transmissions. I have had good success with Redline MTL in those too.

Redline has a different product line for applications in differentials. For more information, check out http://www.redlineoil.com Got to the products section and select tranmission. They have more detailed information availble in a PDF file. While you are there, read about their plain old gear oil too.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Damon G <NOSCRIPT> Damon G </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Redline

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 5 2001, 9:48 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
I have not read most of this thread , and I think that my opinion will likely be in the minority.

But personally I wouldn't use redline in any of my vehicles for one simple reason. They will not submit their superior product to industry standard testing, claiming "secret recipe that we don't want to share". That's BS. I can't even postulate why they really wont do it. But I'll take my chances with anything API endorsed....

And yes steve you're right, no brass. But OEM spec is for a GL1.

-d

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]API testing

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 5 2001, 6:48 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Yes, Redline does not submit samples for API testing. But not for the reason you think. The American Petrolium Institute is and industry funded operation. To submit a product for testing you must also submit the formula for evaluation and comparison to the actual product. While Redline holds a number of patents on their products, defending those patents is difficult. Companies link EXXON, Mobil, Texaco and BP are multi-billion dollar companies. Redline is a tiny little operation which would be completely overmatched tying to defend their patents in court. The big oil companies would bankrupt them in the proceedings. This is a well known tactic. So submitting their product for API testing would have the same result as handing over their proprietary information to the big oil companies.

Besides, API testing was intended to set MINIMUM industry standards for oils. The intent was to weed out the riffraff and the rediculous claims of the majic elixer types. Redline doesn't need the API. I have been using their oils in all kinds of racing cars for many years. Their products out perform any other oils I have ever used.

Steve


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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript>  </SCRIPT>Anthony G. <NOSCRIPT> Anthony G. </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Alright... I'm taking the Syntec back! (more)

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 6 2001, 12:29 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]You've convinced me Steve. I'm gonna take your word.

But as a compromise, I AM going to use synthetic. I know, I run the risk of leaks, and I'll probably hear I told you so, but I gotta take the plunge and see.

Consider me warned.

I will use Mobil 1. NOT Syntec.

Nice explaination about the Redline too! Makes sense. Good to hear.

Anthony G., Red 79X, in WI
30K, $700, owned for 3 months!
Utah car, so very little rust,
but sitting for a long time,
so definitely a fixer upper!

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Transmission oil recommendations??

Xweb

Archive Bot