Transmission questions

FIgnasiak

Low Mileage
So I just got a rebuilt 5 speed, and want to make sure I don't mess it up. Does it need any kind of break-in time? Also if MTL is not available is there a more common gear oil that is okay to use? Is there anything special that I might not know, or is it just pull the old one and install the 'new' one. I hope I have time off this weekend, getting excited, my car just might drive again.
Thanks, Frank
(Lamesa, Tx)-for now
 
Go to your local NAPA parts store and ask for 65-201, which is a gallon of GL-1 gear oil, the oil speced by FIAT for your trans.

This oil is generally stocked by rural NAPA dealers as a lot of farm equipment uses GL-1 oil. If not, they can usually get it within a day or two. In my area they charge $13.99 for the gallon.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you use a GL-5 rated gear oil. The additives in GL-5 oil are not compatible with the soft metal synchros of your X trans.
 
So I just got a rebuilt 5 speed, and want to make sure I don't mess it up. Does it need any kind of break-in time? Also if MTL is not available is there a more common gear oil that is okay to use? Is there anything special that I might not know, or is it just pull the old one and install the 'new' one. I hope I have time off this weekend, getting excited, my car just might drive again.

Hi Frank,

If you bought your transmission from MidWestX1/9 then it shipped with a document that covers most of this. I will update the document to include the "break-in" proceedure.

Here are the facts:

Break-in is minimal. After installation, drive the car easily for about 30 minutes to warm the transmission up thoroughly. Then inspect for leaks and check to ensure the fluid is full. Top up as necessary. Assuming its leak free you are good to go from that point on.

As per the info sheet there are two options for oil: Pennzoil Synchromesh Transmission Fluid or GM Synchromesh Transmission fluid (GM P/N: 12345349). Pennzoil is available at most of the "chain" autoparts stores and the GM product can be obtained from any GM dealer (Chevy, Pontiac, etc...). It is my strongest recommendation that you take the time to do it right and order some Redline MTL or MT90. You will be much happier with the results.

Under NO circumstances should you use GL1 or any other EP or 90wt gear oil. Yes, GL1 is what Fiat recommended and installed at the factory. However, it is woefully outdated. Modern synthetic gear oils out perform GL1 by several orders of magnitude. Most importantly, GL1 or other 90wt gear oils will void the warranty on your transmission.
 
If you are looking for redline MTL...

... stop by redline's dealer locater and enter your zip code.... might find something closer than you expected.

I found a local Mustang performance shop... nice guys, although the idea of a 1300cc engine seemed a bit strange to them... "that's 1300cc per cylinder, right?" they asked
 
Planning on replacing my 20/50 w/ the Pennzoil Synchromesh

More on Pennzoil Synchromesh Fluid

http://www.stealth316.com/2-pennzoil-synchromesh.htm

Pennzoil-Quaker State Synchromesh is a unique transmission and transaxle fluid that is not API "GL" rated. It has an approximate gear oil grade of about SAE 80W and can be used when temperatures range from -40ºF (-40ºC) to 300ºF (150ºC). According to Pennzoil's product description it is "formulated with high quality paraffinic base stocks, a fluidity modifier, multifunctional performance additives, corrosion inhibitors, a foam suppressor and a shear stable viscosity index improver additive. It provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature performance, excellent synchronizer performance and compatibility with yellow metals, such as bronze, brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions." This description makes Synchromesh suitable for use in some transaxles or transmissions where GL-4 gear oils are specified.

A post on the message board at www.oilanalysis.com found Synchromesh to consist of a 5W30 non-detergent oil with a friction modifer and an EP (extreme pressure) additive. It is made under contract for General Motors by Pennzoil (APC 3378) or by Texaco (Code 1874 MTX Fluid).

According to Don Johnson, Synchromesh fluid was developed for use in the New Venture manual transmission used by Chrysler and General Motors. Specifically, Synchromesh is formulated for transmissions that require GM Part No. 12345349 (Specification No. 9985648), GM Part No. 12345577, or Chrysler Part No. 4874464 (Specification MS-9224). Owners of Diamond Star Motors (DSM) Eclipse, Talon, and Laser cars with MMC (Mitsubishi Motor Corporation) transaxles have reported positive experiences using Synchromesh. The same can be said for owners of the Mitsubishi 3000GT and Dodge Stealth cars with the Getrag-manufactured AWD transaxles. The main benefit to DSM and 3/S owners seems to be excellent synchronizer performance, with reduced grinding and easier shifting compared to using some other gear oils.

Pennzoil Synchromesh Fluid can be purchased as that brand or as the equivalent products: Quaker State Synchromesh (Quaker State is part of Pennzoil), Texaco Synchromesh, GM Synchromesh, or AC Delco Synchromesh (part number 89021808). GM Synchromesh retails for about $10 per quart bottle at GM dealerships. Pennzoil Synchromesh is sold at many Auto Zone auto parts stores for about $5 per quart and should be available from Pennzoil distributors. Texaco Express Lube stores use Synchromesh but the stores I contacted would not sell the product by itself to customers. Pennzoil Synchromesh can be purchased in 5-gallon containers from oil-store.com.
 
. According to Pennzoil's product description it is "formulated with high quality paraffinic base stocks, a fluidity modifier, multifunctional performance additives, corrosion inhibitors, a foam suppressor and a shear stable viscosity index improver additive. It provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature performance, excellent synchronizer performance and compatibility with yellow metals, such as bronze, brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions." This description makes Synchromesh suitable for use in some transaxles or transmissions where GL-4 gear oils are specified.

Specifically, Synchromesh is formulated for transmissions that require GM Part No. 12345349

Yep. Hence my recommendation for Pennzoil Synchromesh or GM Synchromesh.
 
Okay, I got the paper with the info. I did not want to even open the box till I was ready to install. Thanks for everyone's response. I will probably just have to mail-order this "magic" gear oil.:)
-Frank
 
on a side note, pennzoil syncromesh seems to only be available at autozone's in my area (northwest). A gallon is @ $30 and they seem to only stock locally 2 quarts a store. May vary per area, but napa and shucks do not carry the line here.
 
what about gl 1

I always thought that GL 1 was the way to go for Fiat's. I have GL 1 in my 124 Coupe ,it actuall has a Brava 131 tranny in it. I was told to use GL 1 ,I can't remember if I have GL 1 in my X19,but I am experiencing a week 3'rd gear syncro,when I'm at high revs and put it into 3'rd,it's sometimes hesitates to engage quickly. Would a more modern oil help this?
 
I always thought that GL 1 was the way to go for Fiat's.
>> <<
but I am experiencing a week 3'rd gear syncro,when I'm at high revs and put it into 3'rd,it's sometimes hesitates to engage quickly. Would a more modern oil help this?

GL1 is a simple, single weight, petrolium gear oil. It is very heavy and has poor temperature stability characteristics. That is; its very heavy and flows poorly at low temperatures and thins out excessively at high temperatures. Its is basically 60 year old technology.

Modern synthetic lubricants benefit from several generations of technology improvement resulting from molecular engineering. The difference would be similar to comparing a 1920's bi-plane to a modern jet.

I have tested a number of modern gear oils and have found they out perform GL1 to the point that almost any of them are significantly better in every aspect than GL1.

Among the modern gear oils, Redline's MTL and MT90 has proven itselft to be superior to any other I have tested in most modern transaxles and transmissions. And specifically the X1/9's.

If you were to inquire on this forum, I am sure you will get a littany of testimonials as to MTL's performance in the X1/9. It is that good.
 
Which of the two Redlines is best for regular driving?

Any thoughts on the Amsoil version of the synchromesh fluid? http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtf.aspx

Any thoughts on Amsoil 20-50 synthetic motorcycle engine oil? It carries a GL-1 rating, too.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mcv.aspx

Which Redline depends on your application and environment. MTL is good for autocrossing and regular street driving in cooler climates. MT90, being a slightly higher weight, is better for road racing applications where transmission temperatures are higher and for street driving in hotter climates.

I don't have experience with Amsoil products. But as previously noted, almost any modern synthetic gear oil is much better than GL1. Also, 20/50 synthetic motor oil makes a good alternative to "synchromesh" transmission fluid or GL1.
 
Thanks Steve

That makes sense to me. It's just that I could have sworn I read somewhere that the GL 1 mineral oil was still better,,,I will try what you've all recomended in my X19 and my 124 Coupe.
 
That makes sense to me. It's just that I could have sworn I read somewhere that the GL 1 mineral oil was still better,,,I will try what you've all recomended in my X19 and my 124 Coupe.

Well, 124s are not X1/9s. I do know of some people who have convertered tired, worn out, 124 transmissions to MTL and found it didn't work very well.

I have used MT90 in my 124 (a '72 Coupe) and it worked just fine. Same for a '74 Spider I had briefly.

So you may have seen a post from someone that had those experience in a 124. But that would be the exception.
 
I am curious as can be on this. What controlled test did you run and what were the results? I sure would like to see a quantitative comparison.

Thanks,

Brian
 
What controlled test did you run and what were the results? I sure would like to see a quantitative comparison.

Just to be clear, I performed no "controlled" test. I tested GL1 and several other gear oils in one of my freshly rebuilt 5 speeds in my street car and in another freshly rebuilt 5 speed in my DSP autocrosser.

I ran the street car ('74 1300) in varying conditions from cold mornings to hot afternoons over a period of about a month. Then changed to Redline MTL and ran the car for another month in similar conditions. I wanted to know exactly how the two compared in synchronizer performance in varying temperatures.

For my DSP autocrosser I tested at different events in varying temperatures a number of different gear oils. I used Redline MTL as a baseline and included MT90 in the test. The other oils tested (that I can remember) were Pennzoil Synchromesh, GM Synchromesh, Royal Purple, Castrol Syntorq, Mobil One 75/80(?) and a couple of others I don't remember. I also tested 10w30 synthetic motor oil and ATF.

I have also had a number of my transmission customers run GL1 and various other gear oils in their road race cars.

I have also run GL1, Redline MTL and synthetic 10w30 engine oil for extended periods in my street X's.

What I learned from running different oils in my two cars is that GL1 is very temperature sensitive. It works poorly in low temps and high temps. It causes excessive synchronizer wear and low synchronizer performance. It will coak up and break down at very high temperatures. It has poor moisture resistance and varnishes badly with age, contamination and heat.

I also learned that MTL and MT90 have excelent low and high temperature performance. The lowest synchronizer wear and highest synchronizer performance. High moisture resistance and virtually no coaking or varnishing of any kind.

In comparing the other oils, GM/Pennzoil Synchromesh were 2nd best to Redline. Then everything else more or less tied at 3rd place.

To make full disclosure; Redline was a sponsor of the Pro racing team for which I crewed for nearly 10 years. In that time I had a number of chances to talk with Redline engineers and had access to their full line of products. I have maintained that relationship ever since. I learned a lot from those guys.

While I don't have controlled test data I have probably had more X1/9 transmissions apart on my bench than anyone else. I know what they look like after using the factory fill GL1. I know what they look like after 10+ years and 100,000 miles of Redline MTL. I know what they look like after 5 seasons of autocrossing with MTL and I know what they look like after 20+ races in a Production road racer. So I probably have more real world experience than anybody as to what works. I did the above testing when I began to get serious about building these transmissions for customers. I needed to know for my own peice of mind.
 
If you get the opportunity, consider a trial of Amsoil 20-50 motorcycle engine oil. It is fully synthetic and has the added bonus of carrying a GL-1 rating.

On paper seems to be a combination of all that we are looking for.
 
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