I need help. I have had a ‘79 Fiat X1/9 since 1995. It sat for years, I got it running last year (roughly), fooled with the carburetor until I gave up and bought a rebuilt one. Got it back in and now nothing. I have good spark, and fuel going to the carburetor (maybe too much?) and still nothing. Once in a while when I get desperate and pour a little down the throat it will want to start but it will sputter at best then nothing. I’m pretty sure I’m flooding it out, but I can’t get it to fire up. Do I check compression next? Thank you in advance for any clues.
Trouble getting it started
- Thread starter Shuestis
- Start date
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- Tags
- fuel issues not starting x1/9
Frank L. Di Gioia
True Classic
Hi,
post your problem/request for helping the "workshop" part of the forum. This is for 850 and 600 Fiats which are rear engine not mid like yours. That said check the timing and points (if not electronic) first. Then look down primary side of carb and see if gas spurts from acceleration pump jet when the throttle is opened quickly. You may have gas to carb but plugged jets. The X people can help!
post your problem/request for helping the "workshop" part of the forum. This is for 850 and 600 Fiats which are rear engine not mid like yours. That said check the timing and points (if not electronic) first. Then look down primary side of carb and see if gas spurts from acceleration pump jet when the throttle is opened quickly. You may have gas to carb but plugged jets. The X people can help!
DanielForest
True Classic
Many possibilities, but I would suspect the timing belt. With the crank at 5 BTDC do the timing mark align at the cam pointer? If it sound Chinese to you, tell us and I can explain with more details.
myredracer
True Classic
Yeah, wrong forum but this is a universal issue. All you need the right "mix" of fuel, air & spark...
Check the plugs for fouling and check gap. If points style dist., check points and clean as needed and check gap. Fresh plugs might help. Assuming belt has not skipped a tooth, set #1 intake & exhaust for both closed at TDC and then rotate dist. for correct static advance. Might be a good idea to remove all plugs and ensure the engine turns over nicely. Is battery at full charge (check SOC with voltmeter)? Does carb bowl have gas in it? Check by looking at the starter jet and see if gas squirts out when you move the throttle lever.
How did you determine spark is okay? Just on one lead? Check all 4 and make sure they are connected in the right order.
Rather than pouring gas into the carb, some starter spray would be a better idea. Use it sparingly. This can also be used for checking carb vacuum leaks like between carb base and manifold. Sometimes a person can pour in way too much gas and flood it so much there's no way it will start. Make sure to be at arms length when using starter fluid or gas.
No go, then move onto doing a compression check and checking valve clearance. Also, I'd change the oil, filter & coolant.
Running now? Report back.
Check the plugs for fouling and check gap. If points style dist., check points and clean as needed and check gap. Fresh plugs might help. Assuming belt has not skipped a tooth, set #1 intake & exhaust for both closed at TDC and then rotate dist. for correct static advance. Might be a good idea to remove all plugs and ensure the engine turns over nicely. Is battery at full charge (check SOC with voltmeter)? Does carb bowl have gas in it? Check by looking at the starter jet and see if gas squirts out when you move the throttle lever.
How did you determine spark is okay? Just on one lead? Check all 4 and make sure they are connected in the right order.
Rather than pouring gas into the carb, some starter spray would be a better idea. Use it sparingly. This can also be used for checking carb vacuum leaks like between carb base and manifold. Sometimes a person can pour in way too much gas and flood it so much there's no way it will start. Make sure to be at arms length when using starter fluid or gas.
No go, then move onto doing a compression check and checking valve clearance. Also, I'd change the oil, filter & coolant.
Running now? Report back.
Last edited:
kmead
Old enough to know better
Air, Spark and Fuel. All in the right time and right proportion.
So you know you have spark along with air and given it will start and run on fuel introduced into the throats of the carb at least for as long as you have fuel sitting in the manifold so you know you have things relatively in time. Try starting again with starter fluid as stated above, it may run fast enough and long enough to pump fuel into the bowl of the carb. If no then it is time to start in on fixing it.
First go back and retighten the carb to the manifold. Consider actually taking it off first to verify that the base of the new carb is flat and the face of the manifold it is mounting to is flat. When reinstalling put a thin schmeer of Form a Gasket on the faces of the carb and the manifold then bolt it down to reduce any vacuum leaks. You could do this after verifying the fuel pump.
Do you have a X repair manual from Haynes or a factory manual? If no then have a look at the Wiki where you can find a full version of it. I would also be happy to give you the relevant pages as a PDF or just images. Please ask for what you need.
The fuel in the tank, is it also from 1995? If so it may no longer be ignitable or barely so. If it is near empty put a few gallons of fresh new fuel. If you put it away full all those years ago consider pumping the old fuel out or at least as much as you can.
Have you verified you are getting fuel into the carb? One way is to remove the main lead from the coil, then remove the feed from the pump to the carb and hold the end into a cup/jar and have someone else turn it over. Getting a decent flow of fuel? Great. Does it look clean? Then reconnect it to the carb and try to start it knowing you still have to fill the bowl of the carb so it won’t just light off.
If yes then move on to the next step, if no then look into why the fuel pump is not delivering fuel. Is the filter clogged? If you don’t have a filter, add one as you may have pumped a bunch of crap into your new carb or you don’t wan’t to fill it with crap that is sitting in your old fuel. Has the mechanical pump failed? Do you have an electrical pump and have dodgy wiring? Once the pump delivers fuel move to the next step. (As in try to start the car).
Is there fuel in the float bowl of the carburetor? Take the cover half off the carb and you should have a decently amount of fuel in the float area (@half full). If no and you have fuel being delivered to the carb then the first thing to check is did all the shipping plugs get removed from the fuel inlet of the carburetor? Then is the float properly adjusted? If the float is improperly adjusted it may shut off fuel flow into the carb when it is at full droop. This would be covered in the manual as to the proper float measurement. If there is fuel in there is there also schmutz in the bottom of the bowl? If yes then the carb needs to come off to be cleaned, hopefully there isn’t much in the various jets and passages. Get it all back together having first filled the fuel bowl.
Now go to start it. Are the choke butterflies closed? If no (as in they are open) then you likely need to adjust the electric or water choke by loosening the screws that lock it in place and rotate the body until closed and then retighten the screws. Spray some starting fluid into the throats and try to start it. It may be rough for a bit and then it should even out. If not then you may want to open the choke butterflies and hold them open with a screw driver as the choke may be out of adjustment in the opposite way (as in it is staying on longer than it should and is ‘choking out’/flooding the engine and stalling it). Will it run properly now? If yes then adjust the choke so it is now open.
Now that you have it running and warmed up you can check for correct timing of the spark and make any adjustments there.
Any questions, feel free to report back with what is or is not happening. Please be as specific as possible.
Good luck and all the best.
Karl
So you know you have spark along with air and given it will start and run on fuel introduced into the throats of the carb at least for as long as you have fuel sitting in the manifold so you know you have things relatively in time. Try starting again with starter fluid as stated above, it may run fast enough and long enough to pump fuel into the bowl of the carb. If no then it is time to start in on fixing it.
First go back and retighten the carb to the manifold. Consider actually taking it off first to verify that the base of the new carb is flat and the face of the manifold it is mounting to is flat. When reinstalling put a thin schmeer of Form a Gasket on the faces of the carb and the manifold then bolt it down to reduce any vacuum leaks. You could do this after verifying the fuel pump.
Do you have a X repair manual from Haynes or a factory manual? If no then have a look at the Wiki where you can find a full version of it. I would also be happy to give you the relevant pages as a PDF or just images. Please ask for what you need.
The fuel in the tank, is it also from 1995? If so it may no longer be ignitable or barely so. If it is near empty put a few gallons of fresh new fuel. If you put it away full all those years ago consider pumping the old fuel out or at least as much as you can.
Have you verified you are getting fuel into the carb? One way is to remove the main lead from the coil, then remove the feed from the pump to the carb and hold the end into a cup/jar and have someone else turn it over. Getting a decent flow of fuel? Great. Does it look clean? Then reconnect it to the carb and try to start it knowing you still have to fill the bowl of the carb so it won’t just light off.
If yes then move on to the next step, if no then look into why the fuel pump is not delivering fuel. Is the filter clogged? If you don’t have a filter, add one as you may have pumped a bunch of crap into your new carb or you don’t wan’t to fill it with crap that is sitting in your old fuel. Has the mechanical pump failed? Do you have an electrical pump and have dodgy wiring? Once the pump delivers fuel move to the next step. (As in try to start the car).
Is there fuel in the float bowl of the carburetor? Take the cover half off the carb and you should have a decently amount of fuel in the float area (@half full). If no and you have fuel being delivered to the carb then the first thing to check is did all the shipping plugs get removed from the fuel inlet of the carburetor? Then is the float properly adjusted? If the float is improperly adjusted it may shut off fuel flow into the carb when it is at full droop. This would be covered in the manual as to the proper float measurement. If there is fuel in there is there also schmutz in the bottom of the bowl? If yes then the carb needs to come off to be cleaned, hopefully there isn’t much in the various jets and passages. Get it all back together having first filled the fuel bowl.
Now go to start it. Are the choke butterflies closed? If no (as in they are open) then you likely need to adjust the electric or water choke by loosening the screws that lock it in place and rotate the body until closed and then retighten the screws. Spray some starting fluid into the throats and try to start it. It may be rough for a bit and then it should even out. If not then you may want to open the choke butterflies and hold them open with a screw driver as the choke may be out of adjustment in the opposite way (as in it is staying on longer than it should and is ‘choking out’/flooding the engine and stalling it). Will it run properly now? If yes then adjust the choke so it is now open.
Now that you have it running and warmed up you can check for correct timing of the spark and make any adjustments there.
Any questions, feel free to report back with what is or is not happening. Please be as specific as possible.
Good luck and all the best.
Karl
MikeHynes
True Classic
[QUOTE="myredracer, post: 341322, member: 3491]
Assuming belt has not skipped a tooth, set #1 intake & exhaust for both closed at TDC and then rotate dist. for correct static advance.[/QUOTE]
No, no, no!
When the cam timing is correct (factory timing marks for the cam and crank line up) it's the #4 cylinder that has both valves closed and the dist is ready to fire #4.
Not #1.
When everything is lined up correctly the #1 cylinder has both valves open (an equal amount - split overlap).
Cam timing seems to be one of the things that is confusing. Set it at: Crank at TDC, valves BOTH open on #1, BOTH closed on #4, dist rotor pointed to #4 plug wire on the cap.
It runs better that way.
Assuming belt has not skipped a tooth, set #1 intake & exhaust for both closed at TDC and then rotate dist. for correct static advance.
[/QUOTE]No, no, no!
When the cam timing is correct (factory timing marks for the cam and crank line up) it's the #4 cylinder that has both valves closed and the dist is ready to fire #4.
Not #1.
When everything is lined up correctly the #1 cylinder has both valves open (an equal amount - split overlap).
Cam timing seems to be one of the things that is confusing. Set it at: Crank at TDC, valves BOTH open on #1, BOTH closed on #4, dist rotor pointed to #4 plug wire on the cap.
It runs better that way.
myredracer
True Classic
No, no, no![QUOTE="myredracer, post: 341322, member: 3491]
Assuming belt has not skipped a tooth, set #1 intake & exhaust for both closed at TDC and then rotate dist. for correct static advance.
When the cam timing is correct (factory timing marks for the cam and crank line up) it's the #4 cylinder that has both valves closed and the dist is ready to fire #4.
Not #1.
When everything is lined up correctly the #1 cylinder has both valves open (an equal amount - split overlap).
Cam timing seems to be one of the things that is confusing. Set it at: Crank at TDC, valves BOTH open on #1, BOTH closed on #4, dist rotor pointed to #4 plug wire on the cap.
It runs better that way.
[/QUOTE]Why aren't all Fiats the same?
I just set up timing on my rebuilt 850 engine which goes by #1, but the oil filler cap is at that end.