Trunk full of 850 parts in LA

Discussion in 'Rear-Engine Fiats' started by roadster27, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. roadster27

    roadster27 True Classic

    Location:
    Springfield, OR
    I've got a trunk full of 850 parts that need to find a home tomorrow morning. Been trying to reach Jeff Stitch without success. If someone can help me reach him, or if you want them let me know. They aren't going back home with me.

    Thanks,
    Dean
     
    mkmini likes this.
  2. Jeff Stich

    Jeff Stich True Classic

    Location:
    Norco, CA
    See my PM reply. ;)
     
  3. roadster27

    roadster27 True Classic

    Location:
    Springfield, OR
    Thanks Jeff. I hope you find some useable parts, and homes for things you don't need yourself.
     
  4. B Carns

    B Carns Low Mileage

    Location:
    usa
    If there is a pre-1969 850 distributor (short version) among the parts, I am interested in one. Thank You.
     
  5. Jeff Stich

    Jeff Stich True Classic

    Location:
    Norco, CA
    Thank you & I'm glad we were able to meet up on short notice! ;)

    I can't wait to get over to my shop later today, unload the boxes out of my cars' trunk & then spread the stuff all out on the shop floor to see exactly what's there. :D
     
  6. Jeff Stich

    Jeff Stich True Classic

    Location:
    Norco, CA
    I know there is a distributor in one of the boxes, but I'm not sure (yet) if it's an early (pre-1970) or late (1970-on) Marelli unit. Dean & I basically just transferred the few boxes of 850 parts from his car trunk to my car trunk, then we each went on our separate way. I got a peek at the top half of a distributor cap poking up in one of the boxes, & can say at the very least that it wasn't a Ducellier unit.

    I'll be unloading the boxes from my car later today, & will find out then what all's there. I already have enough of the early Marelli distributors in my own parts stash (not for sale), so if there's an early one in these boxes, it'll be available. ;)
     
  7. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Sounds like fun, Christmas in August. :)
     
  8. Jeff Stich

    Jeff Stich True Classic

    Location:
    Norco, CA
    I spent most of yesterday afternoon separating parts (75%) from trash (25%), & it turns out there were TWO of these distributors in the parts pile afterwards. Both are early 850 Marelli, one is an S118BA model, the other is an S118BB model. They were both really grungy, but a little cleaning has made them more presentable:

    850emd1.jpg 850emd2.jpg 850emd3.jpg


    The S118BA is mostly complete; it needs an ignition condenser (the retaining screw is still in place), & it's missing the small bolt/washer/nut that holds the black plastic wiring connection insulator onto the upper edge of the distributor body (the points & condenser wires connect to this). A previous owner has fitted a custom alloy oil slinger/bushing onto the main shaft just below the distributor body. The main shaft is a little stiff when trying to rotate it, likely due to a P.O. using a heavy grease between the shaft & body. This stuff was old black goo that has hardened with age - I cleaned a lot of it off of the upper shaft points-contact lobes, & it rotates a little more freely now.

    850emdS118BA1.jpg 850emdS118BA2.jpg 850emdS118BA3.jpg


    The S118BB is complete, but someone has installed the original black plastic oil slinger/bushing upside down on the main shaft. The 850 Spider side-entry style Marelli distributor cap is "like new" on the inside with no noticeable wear on the 4 brass contacts or the center carbon brush.

    850emdS118BB1.jpg 850emdS118BB2.jpg 850emdS118BB3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  9. kmead

    kmead True Classic

    Location:
    Michigan
    Sorry to ask a stupid question, what is the difference between the BA and BB? Ultimate advance, curve or is it shaft length for a 903 versus 843/817?

    Thanks
     
  10. roadster27

    roadster27 True Classic

    Location:
    Springfield, OR
    I'm glad it was not the other way around.
     
  11. B Carns

    B Carns Low Mileage

    Location:
    usa
     
  12. B Carns

    B Carns Low Mileage

    Location:
    usa
    Thank you for looking through your parts. Do you have any interest in selling either distributor? If so, my first preference would be the S118BB model. My 61 600 is near completion,(not as pictured) and It would be nice to close the engine lid. Thank You.
     
  13. B Carns

    B Carns Low Mileage

    Location:
    usa
    Going from tall, to short distributor ( tall one is -71 903). Short one Thanks to Jeff Stitch. The short dist. allows you to close the engine lid , when a 903 is used in a 600.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  14. Jeff Stich

    Jeff Stich True Classic

    Location:
    Norco, CA
    As far as I've been able to tell, the BA & BB are the same except for the advance springs (maybe). Looking through the Fiat 850 parts books, I've noted that there are different part numbers for the springs used per distributor. Unfortunately, the books don't call out the distributor model numbers (ie: S118BA or S118BB), they only note the maker (Marelli) & the Fiat (not Marelli) part number for the entire distributor assembly. The diagrams for each of these 2 distributors are otherwise identical.

    I don't know if the different part numbers indicate physically different springs (thus difference spring rates equaling different advance rates), or if it's just Fiat doing what they always did by having multiple part numbers for the same part (perhaps supplied by different makers).

    I do know the centrifugal advance for this early (1967-69) 850 Marelli distributor is 28° (to engine), on top of the regular static advance of 10° for the 843/817 engine (903 engine has 0° static). I've never looked that far into it, so I don't know if that 28° is for the BA or BB distributor, or both.

    But...seeing how the Shop Manual shows an early Euro Coupe 843 engine with this style of distributor on it, with the 28° being called out in the text, I'm thinking they're showing the BA.

    Perhaps the BB was for USA 817cc engines? Maybe a little more advance (different springs?) to compensate for loss of cc's? Just conjecture as, again, I've never delved that far into all things 850. ;)

    Oh, and the shaft length on all 850 distributors (early Marelli, Ducellier & late Marelli) is the same. The difference in the taller deck height of the 903 is made up by the taller 903 oil pump/distributor intermediary drive shaft (goes between the oil pump & the distributor shaft, with a gear on it driven by the camshaft). Thus, all 850 distributors are interchangeable (as a whole) amongst the various 850 engine blocks, as long as the appropriate intermediate drive shaft is used. And that is also the key to getting an 850 engine into the back of a 600 & still being able to close the engine lid, as in B Carns' situation here. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  15. Jeff Stich

    Jeff Stich True Classic

    Location:
    Norco, CA
    Me, too! :)

    There were a few small odds & ends that I'll keep as spares. Most of the other stuff (like these distributors) will hopefully find their way to folks who can use them. Some of the parts weren't 850 or even Fiat at all (broken VW fuel pump, for example), a couple are Fiat but I'll have to do some detective work to see what model they're for. The single item I'm happiest to have is that old exhaust header; rusty & cracked, but hopefully a relatively easy save. :)

    The noise from that 850 engine when it grenaded must've been spectacular! LOL. It's a shame it sat in that tub of water afterwards (rusty deck & cylinders), but I'm hoping the block itself is savable - I'll scrub it down & put it on the shelf for now. The crankshaft was pretty rusty, but I'll mic the bare rod journals to see if maybe they can be saved via machining undersize (not a priority, as I have other 850 cranks, but I hate to throw a good one away).

    Paypal funds will be on the way this evening. ;)
     
  16. Jeff Stich

    Jeff Stich True Classic

    Location:
    Norco, CA
    No problem, see PM. ;)
     
  17. kmead

    kmead True Classic

    Location:
    Michigan
    Thank you Jeff.

    For what its worth my 1969 850 Sport Coupe with its OE 817cc engine has a S118 AA distributor. Which I didn’t know until I went out to the garage to check.

    Given the relatively low miles the car had and that most everthing on the car is still OE, I beleive it to be the original distributor.

    I need to replace the hose to the crankcase vent to minimize the light oil haze in the engine compartment though it has been a few decades since I hosed it out...

    A couple of pics
    3319723A-439D-464D-9870-DE7FED54F4EA.jpeg 12318293-DC99-41E9-82FA-F8A0D9D228DD.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  18. NM850

    NM850 True Classic

    Location:
    Albuquerque NM
    My 68 spider with an 817 also has the AA.
    Just trying to add to the knowledge base.
     
    kmead likes this.

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