Turbo K20 Mid Engine Yugo

Longitudinal

Longitudinal

True Classic
Okie doke... Here we begin. I am going to be making videos of this project for my YouTube channel. My plan is to make the videos then share the videos to this and other forums.

At first, I am just taking a few things apart to get the lay of the land.

I got the fuel tank out. It wasn't such a bad job, but I don't understand FIAT's predilection for placing the filler neck pipe at the bottom of a tank. If you're going to do that, how about giving us a drain plug on the tank?

The main purpose of removing the tank was not to stink up the garage with the smell of twelve year old sour gas. That was just a convenient side effect. The purpose was to start taking measurements to see how well or how poorly a Honda K20 powertrain will fit in the back. Those who know the Yugo know that the unibody has structural members running along the floor directly inboard of the rocker panels. These members will be important datums for me as I build all of the new structure in the back of the car. I am also considering them an untouchable feature of the car's structure. (SOMETHING has to be a datum...) The good news for me is that they are 43" inside to inside, which means that they are wide enough to accommodate the K20 powertrain between them. The bad news is that those structural features narrow considerably around the rear suspension, which means that I have to cut out almost all of the rear structure of the unibody and cut out a lot of the wheel wells. That's all OK. It's just metal.
 

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This looks like fun. I have wanted to do a couple of similar modes to a yugo for awhile. However, after driving my daughters Suzuki Sidekick, it makes me wonder about the 4wd from it with a K20 connected to it.

Anyways, can't wait to see how it goes, and you are right, it's just metal, can always replace it if needed.
 
fastx19 said:
This looks like fun. I have wanted to do a couple of similar modes to a yugo for awhile. However, after driving my daughters Suzuki Sidekick, it makes me wonder about the 4wd from it with a K20 connected to it.

Anyways, can't wait to see how it goes, and you are right, it's just metal, can always replace it if needed.
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I have already done an AWD conversion build. If there were a mid engine AWD system that was cost effective and would fit in the space provided, I might be curious to explore it. But I have wanted for more than a decade to do a mid engine conversion. And...AWD might be superior, but RWD is more fun. :)
 
I've been thinking about various directions for a similar build for a very long time. I agree, if it were to be all wheel drive, then it would have to be a front engine layout (the VAG cars offer some great options for that). Vice versa, for a mid engine layout, then it would need to be rear drive only. Both have their merits. Just consider the "Rally Cross" cars with over 600HP and all wheel drive; it would be so much fun to smoke all four tires at the same time while going 60MPH at full drift! But to build that will be VERY expensive. There is also a whole lot of fun to be had with a true mid engine/rear drive car offering say 300-400HP; doing a similar high speed drift but smoking only the rear tires. And that's a very doable project.

I've been curious what drivetrain you were going to decide on for this build. Should be able to get well over 300HP and a sh!t ton of torque out of that choice. Sooo much fun! Please do us a favor if possible and post the build's highlights here in addition to any YouTube videos you make. Personally I don't watch YouTube stuff but would enjoy seeing the basic aspects of it with a few pics here.
 
Jeff,

I will do my best. :)

Yes, the available mid engine AWD systems that could possibly fit would be Peugeot 205 T-16 or MG Metro 6R4--unobtanium rally cars whose transmissions alone would blow my whole build budget. Porsche rear engine stuff couldn't possibly work. I already built a front engine Quattro conversion of an Audi Fox. Plus, I like RWD better anyway.

Re: smoky donuts, I have seen a lot of mid engine builds come and go. What they all had in common was smoky donuts. That seems to be all they do. Most of them use front suspension in the rear, probably because it was already there and the axles fit the transmission and the hubs. But front suspension isn't the same as rear suspension. I had the rear suspension design all laid out in my head, and I went to build an exhaust for a friend's SW20 MR2 V6 conversion. Under the car, I found that the MR2 already had the suspension I had drafted in my head. So I'm just going to use that, rolling however many millions of Yen that Toyota had already invested in their mid engine rear suspension design. I doubt I could top Toyota engineering on my best day--and with an engineering degree--which I don't have. I want this car to handle as well as or better than a suspension tuned X, which is to say a great handling car.

You're right on the mark: 400HP is my goal. With a K20, 400 is a fairly modest goal. 400 is the stopping point before transmission problems ensue, so that seems like a good place to get off the train.
 
Agreed, however I've come to the conclusion if I want to build a car primarily for the purpose of having big fun doing huge smoky burnouts and drifts (which I am seriously considering building), then it will be front engine and rear drive. I have a Mk1 VW Caddy that I'm thinking of converting that way. Easy and cheap to do, and much more robust and reliable for that particular purpose.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Agreed, however I've come to the conclusion if I want to build a car primarily for the purpose of having big fun doing huge smoky burnouts and drifts (which I am seriously considering building), then it will be front engine and rear drive. I have a Mk1 VW Caddy that I'm thinking of converting that way. Easy and cheap to do, and much more robust and reliable for that particular purpose.
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I eyeballed a MKI (Scirocco) for conversions, but decided not to pursue it. A front engine RWD conversion can certainly be done to one of those. The whole front suspension has to be reimagined since the engine needs to poke into the firewall, disrupting the steering geometry by displacing the rack. My idea with a MK1 was to build half of a tube chassis--a platform to lay out the control arm geometry--then cut out the floor to integrate that frame into the unibody, then towers, etc etc etc.

Don't get me wrong: smoky burnouts are great. But I want to do smoky burnouts on a neutral handling car because the car has enough power to do them and not because the car has a natural tendency to swing the ass end around every time I turn so I might as well add some smoke.
 
Agree again. Actually that is exactly what I would do if I decide to convert the Caddy (pickup truck) to front engine / rear drive; it is still a unibody but has a relatively long wheelbase and is very flat across the bottom, so adding a tube frame would be pretty straight forward. Particularly with a common longitudinal engine / trans up front and solid axle in the back. Basically sit the body on top of a new undercarriage. But as I mentioned, this would not be particularly designed to handle as much as to thrash on for fun. A small short-wheelbase sedan would be a completely different animal. And one designed as mid-engine will need to handle properly, otherwise it would be a real handful. Yet another project I'd like to do some day. ;)
 
So what's the plan for this especially with respect to suspension, handling etc? You could take the full front subframe from a Honda/Acura and transplant it rearward then keep the Honda hubs and full driveline - just pin the steering much like in the X1/9. I did a quick search and couldn't find the rear track of a Yugo but just comparing the RSX Type-S vs Yugo width you're looking at 6" wider. In all the photos of Yugo's I've seen I could swear the rear track is more narrow than the front.

Sounds like a fun project. Make it your own.

While I have mad respect for this build on a twin-motor Yugo - don't that.
 
darwoodious said:
So what's the plan for this especially with respect to suspension, handling etc? You could take the full front subframe from a Honda/Acura and transplant it rearward then keep the Honda hubs and full driveline - just pin the steering much like in the X1/9. I did a quick search and couldn't find the rear track of a Yugo but just comparing the RSX Type-S vs Yugo width you're looking at 6" wider. In all the photos of Yugo's I've seen I could swear the rear track is more narrow than the front.
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I think that is where most mid engine conversions go wrong--copy-pasting the front suspension to the rear. Factory mid engine cars don't do that; the MR2 and X1/9 have distinctly different front and rear suspension geometry. Again the same with converted mid engine cars such as the Renault turbo R5, Peugeot 205T-16, and the Metro 6R4. The SHOgun did have complete SHO front suspension in the back, but I don't know anything at all about how well those cars handled.

It is popular to think that mid engine cars naturally handle well because of ideal weight distribution or some such thing. It's actually a real trick to get them to handle well. Engineers know more than I do about this stuff, so I am going to piggyback on their work and their knowledge.

I had a rear suspension design in my head for the build. A few weeks later, a friend asked me to build an exhaust for his V6 converted SW20 MR2. I got under the car, and lo, and behold, there was the suspension that I had designed in my head. So, the arms, radius rods, toe links, knuckles, and struts will be SW20 MR2.

Width is not an issue for me. From the start, I have planned for box flares. I really want a very wide rear track to mimick the cars that inspired this build--the SHOgun, the R5 Turbo, the 6R4, and the 205T-16.

While I have mad respect for this build on a twin-motor Yugo - don't that.
Click to expand...

I, too, can respect the work, but it's not my cup of meat either. I had a friend here in Columbus who built a twin engine Scirocco, the Durocco. I suppose it's neat, but from a weight standpoint as well as an engineering standpoint, I would much rather double the power of a single engine than double the number of engines.
 
Longitudinal said:
Not much to show yet.
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It might help if you aim the camera better....the Yugo was almost cut out of the picture. But these labels may help identify things:



Yugo Rear Up.jpg



Someone had to add a Yugo joke at some point. :p But honestly I love Yugos; the body style is my idea of the classic Euro hatch, perfect for such a build with boxed fenders and mid-engine. Although for the most part I'm not a big fan of French cars, I like this modern interpretation of the same theme:

7778 - Copy.JPG


Along with ones like you mentioned, "I really want a very wide rear track to mimick the cars that inspired this build--the SHOgun, the R5 Turbo, the 6R4, and the 205T-16".
 
Dr.Jeff said:
It might help if you aim the camera better....the Yugo was almost cut out of the picture. But these labels may help identify things:
Click to expand...

Oh yes. The rescue vehicle is ten years older, has .2L less displacement, and still has more power than the Yugo, which was injected and therefore the most "powerful" Yugo sold here. Oh, and the rescue vehicle is going to be sold next year. The wife just doesn't want to get on the back. So I guess I'll be walking. :)

But honestly I love Yugos; the body style is my idea of the classic Euro hatch, perfect for such a build with boxed fenders and mid-engine.
Click to expand...

I think so too. The coachwork is great. I'll just have to refrain from opining about the powertrain.

Although for the most part I'm not a big fan of French cars, I like this modern interpretation of the same theme:
Click to expand...

Yes! I generally feel the same about French cars, or at least French production cars. But historically, we owe a lot to the French--particularly for motorsport. Imagine a world without Bugatti! Yeah, OK, he was Italian. But the cars were French. From a style standpoint, I love the R5 Turbo. It was a real wimp compared to its Group B competition, but it's a beautiful car.
 
Nice petit turbo you have lined up there :) - it does look like some clocking is in order - looks like the drain is pointed up into the manifold at the mo....

Those Yugos do look like a late 70's VW rabbit to me, which is not a bad thing, IMO
 
lookforjoe said:
Nice petit turbo
Click to expand...
I had the same thought. 😲 Seems like there should be a "that's what she said" joke in there somewhere.


lookforjoe said:
Those Yugos do look like a late 70's VW rabbit to me
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I guess there are similarities. But as a VW enthusiast I think they are very different looking. Suppose it would be like saying all Volvos from the 70's looked like all 70's Lada's....oh wait, they did. :D
 
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