Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I love that exhaust.
Turbo systems for X1/9's
- Thread starter Dr.Jeff
- Start date
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
That would probably work and I slso gave it a thought. However, I then realized that specific sensors are needed. My solution was to mount a bracket close to the cam wheel, and replaced one of the wheel bolts, long enough to work as a trigger. A rather quick and easy solution that works very well.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Definitely a better approach. At the time I was looking for the simplest method to get it working - not necessarily the best. However I later realized I don't even need a cam position sensor at all. I'm not running true sequential fuel injection so the cam position is not required with any form of batch injection.
I will play with what is referred to as "semi-sequential" injection; two batches of two injectors fired together, but timed different between the pairs. Supposedly offers some of the advantages of sequential but simpler to set up and tune. The main reason I am interested in this route is to reduce the load on the injectors (half of a full batch arrangement), due to me using low impedance ones.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
I had my first run with the UT engine today. Everything worked as expected. -Almost. The idling speed is 1500 rpm and obviously the Volvo idling valve is not closing fully. I've experimented a lot with the ECU and PWM frequency but without positive result. Finally I clamped the air feed hose to the valve and removed the function in ECU, and engine was idling at 850rpm without the PWM involved. This is not a perfect solution as it takes a couple of seconds for the ECU to recalculate air, timing, fuel etc. to stabilize. The junkyard idle PWM valve will be replaced with a brand new one that hopefully will do the job.
Temperatures are ok, even without the injector an oil cooler fans that will arrive from distributor later ths week.
I never had a working oil pressure gauge in the car until now, but I assume 2 bar at 2000 rpm is ok? I haven't revved it more than 3000rpm (I don't dare until I've mapped it) but I notice oil pressure is rising to about 3 bar.
She is MUCH louder than I thought she would be. The Turbo is not reducing much of the noise, and neither does the high flow Simons muffler.
I will go for dyno and mapping on Saturday or Sunday and I am very curious about the result. A report will follow.
I know you love pictures so here are some.
Temperatures are ok, even without the injector an oil cooler fans that will arrive from distributor later ths week.
I never had a working oil pressure gauge in the car until now, but I assume 2 bar at 2000 rpm is ok? I haven't revved it more than 3000rpm (I don't dare until I've mapped it) but I notice oil pressure is rising to about 3 bar.
She is MUCH louder than I thought she would be. The Turbo is not reducing much of the noise, and neither does the high flow Simons muffler.
I will go for dyno and mapping on Saturday or Sunday and I am very curious about the result. A report will follow.
I know you love pictures so here are some.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Excellent job 
I've read a lot of people having difficulties with getting idle control valves to work properly. Most of what I read is about MegaSquirt ECUs, but I'm sure the same issues exist elsewhere. Several have decided to not run a ICV as a result. So it may not be the valve? I hope to be able to make one work for my setup due to retaining air conditioning and preferring the idle not drop when the AC cycles on.
I imagine the temps will go up a bit once you get it tuned and start driving it more aggressively. The more the turbo comes on, the higher the temps soar exponentially. So the fans will be more important then.
In my opinion those oil pressure levels are o.k. but not quite ideal, especially for a performance engine with a turbo. I prefer a bit higher, particularly at lower RPMs (the maximum pressure at higher RPMs will be governed by the thickness of the shims placed in the oil pump's bypass). But I also look at flow, not just pressure. It is easy to raise the pressure by increasing the bypass shims, but that also reduces flow. So there is a balance to be found. What oil pump are you running (happen to know the part number)? Is it new? Once you can run the engine higher and harder, watch your pressures carefully to see what happens. For now those numbers are good, but more important is at higher demand and also at higher temps.
I'm sad to hear that it is still that loud. I was planning to run a very similar setup with a very small straight through muffler, hoping the turbo would act as a good muffler. I guess I'll see how mine turns out then decide if I need to change what I already have for it.
Your car looks great. Did I mention I have white paint waiting to go on mine also? Thinking I may add small green and red stripes (tricolore).
I've read a lot of people having difficulties with getting idle control valves to work properly. Most of what I read is about MegaSquirt ECUs, but I'm sure the same issues exist elsewhere. Several have decided to not run a ICV as a result. So it may not be the valve? I hope to be able to make one work for my setup due to retaining air conditioning and preferring the idle not drop when the AC cycles on.
I imagine the temps will go up a bit once you get it tuned and start driving it more aggressively. The more the turbo comes on, the higher the temps soar exponentially. So the fans will be more important then.
In my opinion those oil pressure levels are o.k. but not quite ideal, especially for a performance engine with a turbo. I prefer a bit higher, particularly at lower RPMs (the maximum pressure at higher RPMs will be governed by the thickness of the shims placed in the oil pump's bypass). But I also look at flow, not just pressure. It is easy to raise the pressure by increasing the bypass shims, but that also reduces flow. So there is a balance to be found. What oil pump are you running (happen to know the part number)? Is it new? Once you can run the engine higher and harder, watch your pressures carefully to see what happens. For now those numbers are good, but more important is at higher demand and also at higher temps.
I'm sad to hear that it is still that loud. I was planning to run a very similar setup with a very small straight through muffler, hoping the turbo would act as a good muffler. I guess I'll see how mine turns out then decide if I need to change what I already have for it.
Your car looks great. Did I mention I have white paint waiting to go on mine also? Thinking I may add small green and red stripes (tricolore).
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
Ha ha, I have a stick to hold the rain cover on my boat, it has tennis balls to protect the canvas. There was no time to get the boat in the lake this summer, the X kept me busy
. After removing the rain skin from the engine hood I use the stick to keep it open and it works quite well.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
Thanks Jeff, it has been a lot of hard work, but in a way I got some help from Covid 19 as its been no stress to have it ready for car meetings and trackdays. They were all canceled this season.Excellent job
I've read a lot of people having difficulties with getting idle control valves to work properly. Most of what I read is about MegaSquirt ECUs, but I'm sure the same issues exist elsewhere. Several have decided to not run a ICV as a result. So it may not be the valve? I hope to be able to make one work for my setup due to retaining air conditioning and preferring the idle not drop when the AC cycles on.
I imagine the temps will go up a bit once you get it tuned and start driving it more aggressively. The more the turbo comes on, the higher the temps soar exponentially. So the fans will be more important then.
In my opinion those oil pressure levels are o.k. but not quite ideal, especially for a performance engine with a turbo. I prefer a bit higher, particularly at lower RPMs (the maximum pressure at higher RPMs will be governed by the thickness of the shims placed in the oil pump's bypass). But I also look at flow, not just pressure. It is easy to raise the pressure by increasing the bypass shims, but that also reduces flow. So there is a balance to be found. What oil pump are you running (happen to know the part number)? Is it new? Once you can run the engine higher and harder, watch your pressures carefully to see what happens. For now those numbers are good, but more important is at higher demand and also at higher temps.
I'm sad to hear that it is still that loud. I was planning to run a very similar setup with a very small straight through muffler, hoping the turbo would act as a good muffler. I guess I'll see how mine turns out then decide if I need to change what I already have for it.
Your car looks great. Did I mention I have white paint waiting to go on mine also? Thinking I may add small green and red stripes (tricolore).
I don't know what kind of oil pump it is, and it is most likely not new. As you say flow is important and that can have changed as the oil cooler has been relocated. I used AN hoses and fittings for that, but I had to keep one stock banjo bolt (on AN fitting) as it also holds the oil temperature sender. I noticed that it is a little bit different shaped than the AN bolt and does not flow as much. -I will keep my eyes on the gauges and if this becomes a problem I will handle it. -Maybe I can drill a hole in the top of an AN bolt to fit a sensor.
I do recommend a bigger muffler. I will look for something to reduce the noise at least when going far. On race track and short trips it will be ok but I'm sure I am very close to the 95 dB restriction we have here.
So you are planning for Corfu Bianco? I love that color. Eventually I will add Martini striping during the winter. -This car will probably never be finished.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I asked because I would like to find a replacement pump that works in the X's SOHC, but with a greater output than stock. Lots of guys say "that isn't necessary", or "it only robs power to drive a larger pump", or "why do that". Those are typical questions I get for a lot of things I do so they don't bother me, I just ignore them. But to benefit this thread about turbos in X's, I'll answer the questions anyway. With the added heat, oil break down, and oil contamination a turbo adds I am a big believer in upgrading pretty much everything to do with lubrication and cooling. That includes upgrading the whole engine cooling system to add more capacity for extra heat removal, and the oil system to increase both circulation and heat removal. Some things I'm doing to the oil system are; remote mounted oil cooler (with a fan), remote mounted larger oil filter, ported oil passage ways in the engine, readjusted oil pressure relief valve, and hopefully a higher volume oil pump. Porting the oil passages is a whole other topic - I'll try to remember to address it more when I finally get around to covering my turbo engine build.
As for oil pumps, there are two part numbers that I know of that fit the X (same as your UT engine). Internally they differ slightly in the number of teeth on the two pump gears. Someone said they believe the one with more teeth must have a higher output. However I've consulted with a couple of hydro engineers and I'm told that does not mean a thing. There is no way of knowing if one has a greater volume without doing some controlled tests (one day I might do that). However it gets even more odd. I have four oil pumps from various X engines. Two are of one part number and two the other. But the gears are not consistent with the part numbers; one of each P/N has the greater number of teeth and one of each has fewer. So I'm not even sure the part number has anything to do with the gears inside. And if you look up replacement oil pump part numbers for the X you may find either P/N listed for any of the engines. Furthermore I've done a lot of measuring on all four and find no differences between them. This whole topic was discussed in a prior thread somewhere. But I keep hoping to find a alternative pump option.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Actually I'm using Ford Oxford White. Mainly because I can get it at a very good price and it is easy to match in the future. My "shop truck" is a late model Ford F150 and happens to be that color. I've painted another project car with it, plus plan to do all three of my current projects with it (two X's and a VW). So all of my vehicles will be the same matching color. Makes it nice to only keep one can on hand.
I think white in general is a great choice. It is not trendy and therefore never goes out of style. It is easy to paint (one of the most forgiving colors for a ameture painter). It makes a great canvas to add any graphics to. It is the coolest (temperature) color for a extremely hot climate (like mine). It is easy to repair or touch up. It weathers better than any other color. And as I said it is about the lowest cost paint to get. So "refrigerator white" it is.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
I've been looking for that thread. My only complaint for this forum is the poor search function that cannot handle "AND, OR, NOT" searches. -Not very easy to find information here.
If oil pressure/flow/cooling turns out to be a problem I will investigate in options for a dry sump and external electric pump. I studied the PBS Guide as a start, but I assume technical improvements been made since that was written. At least there are more aftermarket products available today.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Have any specific examples that we can look into please? I'd be very interested to find some options.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
That may work. On UT it is not a problem as the distributor is on the cam and with a modern ECU (preferred) you can even remove the distributor completely. A pulley with a smaller diameter shouldn't be very difficult to manufacture.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Rachael, I'd forgotten about that discussion, thanks for reminding me.
If I recall it included components from models we never got here? Therefore converting everything from a V-belt to tooth-belt arrangement, with the necessary bits to also change the drive ratio, could be difficult for us to get all the right parts. I remember looking into a toothed-belt conversion (independent of the ratio change) based on some components that Steve C suggested, but I could not locate them. @lookforjoe did it with other components that were modified but that may not work with the ratio change? Do you happen to recall what the needed parts are? Having some part numbers would be a huge benefit so I can search our databases to see if any of it can be located. Thanks
rachaeljf
True Classic
As I recall, the crank V belt pulley is separate from the toothed pulley. Therefore you should be able to swap toothed pulleys and keep your V pulley. The 1st/2nd generation sohc has a 21 tooth crank pulley and a 30 tooth auxiliary pulley. The 3nd generation (1.4/1.6 sohc) uses a different tooth profile and pitch (8 mm) to the X1/9 (3/8" - I think known as "L Pitch"), so you would need to swap all the pulleys. The 1.4/1.6 has a 24 tooth crank, 32 tooth aux. Using these will give a 7% increase in oil pump speed over stock. The 4th generation (16V dohc) has a 24 tooth crank and 28 tooth aux, giving a 22% increase in oil pump speed. This assumes the pulley/Woodruff key fit to the crank and aux shafts hasn't been changed of course, I haven't tried it myself! However, this all came up because a couple of Aussie guys couldn't figure out why their dizzy kept going out of sync with their hybrid sohc X1/9-Punto engine, which suggests the pulleys are interchangeable.
It's true that the later generation engines and parts are hard to get in the US. Rather than swapping all the pulleys, auxiliary pulleys can be machined up from generic pulleys by pulley suppliers, so you could have choice of ratios depending on whether you can get a suitable length belt or somehow take up the slack from using a smaller pulley. This is a link to a UK supplier to give you an idea. They offer a boring and keyway machining service that is very affordable. https://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/bel...e_type=24690&cat=1058&pulley_belt_width=24703
It's true that the later generation engines and parts are hard to get in the US. Rather than swapping all the pulleys, auxiliary pulleys can be machined up from generic pulleys by pulley suppliers, so you could have choice of ratios depending on whether you can get a suitable length belt or somehow take up the slack from using a smaller pulley. This is a link to a UK supplier to give you an idea. They offer a boring and keyway machining service that is very affordable. https://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/bel...e_type=24690&cat=1058&pulley_belt_width=24703
MikeHynes
True Classic
Im not s
If you google "dry sump oil pumps" you'll get a lot of info. Of course you'll have to build a system from generic parts, but if you can fab up a mount for the pump, you can pretty much find off the shelf parts to make it work.
In my mind the question becomes what type of oil pump is best? Gear? Gerotor? Twisted Lobe, etc. Lots of choices. Dry sump oil pumps are very widely used in racecars for good reasons. There are even some domestic manufactures that are selling dry sumped cars to the general public these days. Dry sumps are not just for super cars anymore. Manufactures such as Peterson, Aviaid, Moroso, Titan, and others have a wide array of products to choose from. Putting a system together isn't cheap, and it takes up some room, but it's not really difficult.
I'm not sure how to answer your question.
If you google "dry sump oil pumps" you'll get a lot of info. Of course you'll have to build a system from generic parts, but if you can fab up a mount for the pump, you can pretty much find off the shelf parts to make it work.
In my mind the question becomes what type of oil pump is best? Gear? Gerotor? Twisted Lobe, etc. Lots of choices. Dry sump oil pumps are very widely used in racecars for good reasons. There are even some domestic manufactures that are selling dry sumped cars to the general public these days. Dry sumps are not just for super cars anymore. Manufactures such as Peterson, Aviaid, Moroso, Titan, and others have a wide array of products to choose from. Putting a system together isn't cheap, and it takes up some room, but it's not really difficult.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Haha, Rachael I'm such an idiot. I was confusing the two belt systems. In the past I looked into a toothed belt drive for the accessories (crank, water pump, alt), and when I started thinking about 'toothed belts' again, my mind went to that. Sorry for confusing the discussion.
O.k., so now I'm back on track. I think it would be easier to locate the later model pulleys that are a direct fit rather than have something custom made. I'd like to do some searching online to see what parts might be available. So help me just a little bit more if you would; when you say 3rd generation 1.4 / 1.6, or 4th generation 16V DOHC, I'm not versed in those models. Could you please tell me what specific years and most common car models those might be? Unfortunately I've never followed them due to us not having access to them, so I know nothing about later models. Thanks.
