twincam69

True Classic
So I decided to see if I could replace the guts on a 124 Veglia clock since I’ve never seen one that works. I thought I’d buy one of the Luch 12v quartz car clocks off eBay for $12 as a starting point. It turns out that the works are an updated version of the veglia and all the mounting studs line up with the old case although the face and case size are larger. So let the install begin!
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First took apart both clocks. Pretty similar, remove the setting knob, uncrimp the bezel and remove the 5mm nuts on the back of the case. The works can then be removed.
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Carefully remove the hands then the face can be removed. On the Veglia there are two tiny screws and on the Luch two plastic clips. The positive socket can be pulled off the three mounting studs on the Veglia and pushed onto the Luch since they have the same pattern.
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You’ll notice the face on the Luch is too large to fit into the Veglia case so just grind it down so it fits. You don’t need to be perfect since the Veglia face will be glued on top of it. Now install the adjustment shaft and snap the face into place. I then put a couple of drops of super glue on the back of the Veglia face and attached it to the Luch.
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Now you can tighten up the 5mm nuts on the rear of the case and reinstall the hands, lens and bezel assembly.
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Now slip the little spring on the adjustment shaft and push on the knob. And you’re done!! Rebuild cost $12 and an hour or so of time.
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Awesome! I must have at least 6 or 7 non-working Veglia clocks that I can do this to. Looking at the overall sizes I might have dismissed the idea, thinking the internals of the new unit wouldn't fit the smaller Veglia case...but they do!

Couple of questions for clarity please:
1) I have not looked yet, but do you happen to have a little more info to identify the right "Luch" clock? Or is there only one such beast?
2) Looking at the two faces in the pics, the two little push-in mounting tabs on the Luch appear to be at the same locations as the two little screws on the Veglia. Would it be possible to use two screws to attach the Veglia face without using the modified Luch face under it? Perhaps with a different size screws or such?
3) I've taken several VDO gauges apart and their bezels can be very difficult to "uncrimp". But I've never tried it on a Veglia (or Luch). Were they difficult to open without damaging anything? Did you find any tips/tricks to doing it?
4) Lastly, I assume the needles on both units are just a "push-on" attachment?

Now I'm thinking the same might be possible for VDO clocks. They don't tend to stop working so much as the adjusting knob breaks off, rendering them pretty much useless.
Thank you very much for posting this amazing find, and for taking the time to answer my questions. 👾
 
Thanks for posting your project. How difficult is it to remove the bezel, can you bend it back into shape easily?

I did a quick search on eBay - Luch 12v quartz car clocks - and came up with quite a selection. Looks like they come from Belarus? How long did it take to receive the clock?

Wonder if the square clocks the seller lists would work as a replacement for the Scorpion's clock? Looks like the seller gives very good dimensional specs. Anyone have a Scorpion clock out that they can measure???
 
I also took a quick look on eBay. Is this the same one you used?


I see the hole in the face for the adjustment knob/shaft is on the bottom vs the Veglia's on top. I assume you just flipped it upside down to fit the Veglia face?

It's almost a shame the case of the Luch is larger. Then the new glass could also be used instead of the smoky old Veglia one. But I seem to recall someone offers new replacement glass pieces? I suppose while you have it apart is a good time to replace it.
 
the square clocks the seller lists
I don't have a Scorpion clock to compare with. But the square ones look like some that were used on older Mercedes Benz. Given the manufacturers location, and that some of the illustrations for the round ones are in German cars, that might be what the square one is modeled after. However that doesn't matter so long as it fits.
 
How long did it take to receive the clock?
I see the listing says shipping to the USA should take 10-25 days. But with the huge over demand for shipping during this virus situation who knows. I'm still waiting for items that were purchased over a month ago, which normally take about a week to get.
 
Awesome! I must have at least 6 or 7 non-working Veglia clocks that I can do this to. Looking at the overall sizes I might have dismissed the idea, thinking the internals of the new unit wouldn't fit the smaller Veglia case...but they do!

Couple of questions for clarity please:
1) I have not looked yet, but do you happen to have a little more info to identify the right "Luch" clock? Or is there only one such beast?
2) Looking at the two faces in the pics, the two little push-in mounting tabs on the Luch appear to be at the same locations as the two little screws on the Veglia. Would it be possible to use two screws to attach the Veglia face without using the modified Luch face under it? Perhaps with a different size screws or such?
3) I've taken several VDO gauges apart and their bezels can be very difficult to "uncrimp". But I've never tried it on a Veglia (or Luch). Were they difficult to open without damaging anything? Did you find any tips/tricks to doing it?
4) Lastly, I assume the needles on both units are just a "push-on" attachment?

Now I'm thinking the same might be possible for VDO clocks. They don't tend to stop working so much as the adjusting knob breaks off, rendering them pretty much useless.
Thank you very much for posting this amazing find, and for taking the time to answer my questions. 👾
Dr.Jeff, your later post shows the style Luch clock I bought. I ordered it on July 29 and it came in on August 14, so two weeks.

The tabs on the face also act as spacers so screws may not work. You could drill into the Luch face and reinstall the Veglia screws just for looks.

My only suggestion for uncrimping the bezel is to go very slow and only lift the edge enough to remove it from the case. If you do that it will almost snap back on. I didn’t care about the Luch and just went around it with a small screwdriver and pried it off.

Needles are push on and pull off.
 
Thanks for the added info. I'm going to get one and play with some options. And again, thanks for posting about this clock mod; this is something that's my kind of thing to do. ;)
 
Nice work! I need to do this with my 124 clock - it not only doesn't work most of the time, it is a very rapid battery drainer!
 
I pulled out some of my broken Veglia clocks and a VDO one. Apparently not all Veglia clocks are designed the same. One is exactly like the one you show, but others are quite different in how they attach the innards to the housing. Those look a lot more like the VDO unit, which does not appear like it can accept the Luch workings. But I haven't torn them apart yet to see what is inside. I'll go ahead and get at least one Luch to see what can be done with any/all of my broken ones. One possibility is to mount the VDO face inside a Veglia body with the Luch guts.
 
I received the new clock today - excellent shipping time, especially these days (purchased on the 15th). ;) It was sent in a plastic mailing envelope, and the postage on it was a bunch of cool foreign stamps stuck all over it. :cool: No damage to the contents. Excellent instruction sheet inside as well, but now I'll have to learn a new language to see what it says.

I want to experiment with both styles of Veglia clocks; one is like the "124" unit shown in this thread and another is from a Ferrari - no idea why they are different but the attachments on the back are very different. I'll also look inside a VDO clock to see what can be done to rebuild it in the same way. For once I'll try to remember to get some pics to show (I'm bad about not doing that).

This is an excellent excuse to procrastinate from doing the work that I really should get done instead. :oops:
 
I'm not even sure what language it is. Don't these clocks come from Belarus? What language is spoken there? That was the home of "Stitch Girl" before they moved to the US (amazing car upholstery work: https://www.thehogring.com/2020/06/19/oksana-ignatova-stitch-girl-inc/)

Started playing with this clock restoration project and I've learned a few things already. First a couple notes on the process....

The most difficult task might be removing the bezel cleanly, and later reinstalling it so it still looks good. This is because the Veglia bezels are very soft and easily deformed when working with them. I found using the largest screwdriver that will fit under the lip is better because it gives a broader surface against the bezel (less damage) and against the plastic housing (old dry brittle stuff that easily breaks). By comparison the VDO bezels are extremely tough and a royal pain to pry open. On the replacement Luch clock I just cut through one side of the bezel to remove it.

Unfortunately I found not all Veglia clocks are the same. I have two of them, one a older Ferrari equipped one, and a newer Fiat equipped one. However neither is like the one @twincam69 has, and therefore not like the Luch. Here are some differences between them:

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As you can see some Veglias only have two retaining screws on the back, and some that have three are not the same spacing as the three on the Luch. Also the VDO is completely different from all of the others, which I already knew (it actually has a soldered connection between the guts and the case). So the replacement guts from the Luch will not fit any of my clocks, at least not as easily as it did for @twincam69.

And there are still other differences between them. The length (height) of the bodies (cases) are different. One Veglia is taller than the other or the Luch. This relates to the size of their guts, some being taller than others. Therefore the guts from one may not be the right height for another:

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Furthermore there are differences in how they are wired; the power connection on the backs are all different. One Veglia has a slip on terminal as part of its guts that protrudes through the back of the case. The other Veglia uses one of the three mounting screws as the power connection. And the Luch has a contact pad on its guts that is touched by a pin on the housing (as does the Veglia @twincam69 has):

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So the ease of this conversion may depend on your particular clock. I knew the VDO would be nothing like the Veglia's or Luch. And I could see there were differences between the two Veglia's, the Ferrari unit being older and from a different application obviously. I don't recall what year 124 the other Veglia came from. But none are like the Luch in my case.

However that does not mean the conversion can't be done. Looking at them I think I can drill a couple of new holes in the backs of the cases to mount the Luch guts into all three of my old clocks (both types of Veglia's and the VDO). Once the guts are screwed to the housing/case then everything else is mounted to the Luch guts and covered by the original faces and lens/bezels. Although I don't know if the length (height) will work in all of them. I will also have to come up with a different connection for the power lead as well. Perhaps a wire can be soldered to the contact pad on the Luch without damaging the mechanism? Or maybe I can make the pin from the Luch housing mount to the Veglia housing to make the same contact? Tomorrow I can procrastinate my other work longer by trying these mods. Hopefully at least one of them will work.
 
You're fast :) - my luch clock arrived yesterday also - in a plastic bag, but the sleeve for the bulb holder was bent & squashed on mine. No matter, since I'm not using it, however I'd be a tad PO'd if the plan was to use as is. I stripped it down, but don't have the cluster out of the car yet to see if my version Veglia matches the OP - mine is <'78, I think...

I only took one pic when I dismantled it to try & repair it - can't really tell from this angle

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to see if my version Veglia matches the OP
Just a guess but I have a feeling yours is like one of mine. It looks like you have the +12V connection on the mounting stud, which is different from the one in the original post....
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I have some more pics I took earlier today while I was taking things apart. Maybe they will benefit someone doing this mod.

This is the Veglia with the power connection on one of the mounting studs:

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And the other Veglia with the power post that sticks through the rear of the case:

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And more shots of the power lead on the Luch:

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I'm wondering if the rivet (pic above) can be drilled out and the contacts added to the plastic case on one of the other style Veglias.

Here's the inside of the three housings (newer Veglia, older Veglia, and Luch, L to R):

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More pics of the Luch mechanism:

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Just for comparison, here's a couple shots of the VDO clock:

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As you can see it has a metal housing. If any of the holes in the back (pic above) happen to match any of the three mounting studs on the Luch, then I could drill the other two holes accordingly and use the Luch guts in the VDO body. The VDO body is the same length as the Luch.


And a old Mercedes VDO clock that I've always loved the style. On the back it has a round housing, so just maybe the Luch guts could be swapped into it? However this old unit still works! I'm telling you there really is something to German part quality (the other VDO clock shown already also still works, but the little knob to adjust the time had been broken off):

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I got to thinking about the ones I was playing with yesterday. I had at least 5 or 6 old Veglia clocks at one point; from a 124 (don't recall the year), a Alfa Spider(?), a early Ferrari, one I bought at a automotive swap meet (unknown origin), and maybe a couple others. All were non-op and apparently I've tossed some of them along the line because now I only find those two remaining. The swap meet one was "guaranteed to be correctly working", and since I've never-ever seen a functioning Veglia clock I paid too much for it. However when I got home and tested it, it was non-op. :mad:

So I might be wrong about one of the two I posted being from a 124. It's possible I've got it mixed up with another one. If so then I apologize to @twincam69 for adding any confusion to this thread. But frankly I never noticed just how different they can be. So maybe it is good to show some differences so others can verify what they have before proceeding with the mod.

This morning I had a thought about salvaging the Luch for one of my Veglia's. With both having plastic bodies, maybe I can cut the bottom off the Luch case and glue it onto the bottom of a Veglia case. That will allow the Luch guts to be mounted to its original base but in a Veglia housing with matching face.
 
Today I had a chance to get back to these clocks. Here is a little more info on the differences between the Veglia models.

When I first read @twincam69's excellent discussion on doing the conversion I looked at his pics and my clocks and thought at least one of mine was the right style for the Luch innards to fit. Afterall mine had three mounting studs/posts on the back like @twincam69 showed, and seemed pretty much the same:
His...
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Mine:
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But the spacing between the three mounting posts are different:
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Here are the measurements for the correct style Veglia, and the replacement Luch. Use this to check your Veglia to see if the Luch will fit:
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The overall height of the bodies is also different, however that might not matter as we will see:
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As far as I can tell the difference in height is only at the other end where the face, lens, and light refraction ring are located. And the light ring is thicker on the taller unit, making up the difference in overall height. So I believe the Luch would still work in a taller housing:
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The main difference however is how the +12V connection is made on the back. The Luch and correct type Veglia have a 'spring metal' contact post on the inner side of the rear cover that makes contact with a corresponding plate on the mechanism:
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While the other Veglia's have something different. Such as a 1/4" slide-on connection directly on the inner mechanism, which sticks up through a hole in the back cover:
(the other Veglia I have is yet again different)....
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The reason that's a problem is you won't have a convenient way to connect the power lead with the newer Luch mechanism inside the older Veglia body.

Another possible difference is the body/housing material. Mine were both plastic, while @twincam69 and @lookforjoe both said theirs are metal. I don't know if that indicates any real difference in being able to do this conversion, but it might be a sign that you may not have the correct model Veglia?


Next I want to offer a couple of tips when doing this conversion (assuming you have the right Veglia).
I suggest you take pictures of your new and old clocks at each step before taking things apart. Even something as simple as the order of assembling the hands when going back together. While they only work one way, it might look confusing without a reference. Here is another excellent example; when removing the face from the Luch mechanism, hold it upright (face up). There are two plastic posts that connect the face onto the mechanism (I used a small pair of needle nose pliers to squeeze them while removing):
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If you have it facing upside down (like in that last pic), there are some gears that will fall out when the face comes off:
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Here is where they were before dropping out:
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If you held the clock the other way around (face up) when removing the face, here is where the gears will remain (in proper place):
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Again, they only go on one way but when things drop all over the place unexpectedly you panic for a second.

Another tip has to do with reducing the diameter of the Luch face to fit inside the smaller Veglia body (as @twincam69 explained). If you cut it to the same diameter as the case then the illumination won't get past it to light up the face at night. Normally light passes around the face to refract through the plastic surround, and disperse onto the face evenly. However this mod changes things a bit, using the Veglia face, light ring, and bezel which are a little different from how Luch did it. So there needs to be room around the Luch face, yet not too much room (i.e. don't trim the Luch face too much) as that will also affect the illumination.
These are the refraction rings on my Veglia's:
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And here is the Luch face trimmed accordingly. Also, don't cut too much from under the little hole where the adjustment knob passes through (arrow). The spring and post are supported by this hole in the face:
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I should have taken a pic of the trimmed Luch face and Veglia light ring assembled, but you will see how it works when you get to that point.
Furthermore, the Luch face also acts as a support for those gears behind it (the ones that fell out when removing the face and causing all sorts of panic). So the Luch face needs to be left pretty much intact for everything to work. As @twincam69 said, you will be covering it with the Veglia face, so appearances don't matter - but function does.

As I mentioned previously one of the most difficult tasks is removing and reinstalling the bezel cleanly. Tips on that were already mentioned.


So where did all of this leave me, having the wrong models of Veglia clocks? I don't have one of the correct type, and I already bought the Luch, so I decided to see what could be done to make it work on a "wrong" one.
I started by cutting out the bottom (rear cover) from the Luch housing/case:
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I looked at possible ways to incorporate the electrical connection from it into the Veglia housing. One thought was to add it to the rear over the existing case, but that proved not viable. Then I decided to trim it down and mount it in between the Luch mechanism and the inside of the Veglia case - sandwiched with the mounting studs:
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That allowed the electrical contact on the Luch rear cover to still work on the Luch mechanism, but fit in the Veglia body:
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Note that some additional scallops were needed to clear other internal components, making for the rather odd shape.

I had to drill three holes in the back of the Veglia body for the mounting studs, and cut a square hole for the Luch electrical connector to stick through:
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The placement of those three holes is important in order to get the clock mechanism centered in the body, and therefore the hands to fit the face correctly. When the components are mounted together the rear looks like this:
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Also note that there were little molded plastic "bumps and ledges" on the inside aspect of the rear Veglia body that needed to be removed to allow the trimmed Luch back to lay flat against it...which was a little difficult to do:
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And the front looks like this (here you see the orientation of the light refraction ring around the face):
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Just need to finish assembling the hands and face/bezel and it should be a new Veglia clock again. Overall with the "wrong" Veglia this is doable but a bit of a pain in the arse. I'd suggest making sure you have the "right" Veglia to begin with. If you don't then consider either buying one (they are cheap because they never work), or go through the extra work I just described to modify yours. Hope this clears things up a little.
 
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