What did you do to your X1/9 today ?

[Dr.Jeff]

Bosch FI fuel pumps underwent a complete redesign several (many?) years ago. Bosch sold out to a larger umbrella corp that wanted to streamline their product listings. The list of part numbers went down to a fraction of what they were, now using one pump for what was previously many different applications. The reorganization also changed the pumps design internally. Previously there were a couple of types, now they are all the same type. The 'current' design pumps have no problem drawing (sucking) fuel up to it. And for that matter it was only certain of the older designs that did not handle it well. The internet seems to have created a bit of folklore on this subject. In fact there are OEM systems that have the pump placed above the tank. That was one of the reasons for redesigning the pumps, so they could be used in such applications.

Another (related) myth that has surrounded EFI pumps is if the pump is run dry for even an instant it will be destroyed. Simple not true. They can run dry for days.

Ideally it is best to locate the pump below the tank. However it isn't necessary and won't destroy the pump. There are other things that will kill them, but for the most part they are very robust.

I don't know how any of this applies to Warbro pumps though. I've always used Bosch ones.

 

[autox19]

Bosch FI fuel pumps underwent a complete redesign several (many?) years ago. Bosch sold out to a larger umbrella corp that wanted to streamline their product listings. The list of part numbers went down to a fraction of what they were, now using one pump for what was previously many different applications. The reorganization also changed the pumps design internally. Previously there were a couple of types, now they are all the same type. The 'current' design pumps have no problem drawing (sucking) fuel up to it. And for that matter it was only certain of the older designs that did not handle it well. The internet seems to have created a bit of folklore on this subject. In fact there are OEM systems that have the pump placed above the tank. That was one of the reasons for redesigning the pumps, so they could be used in such applications.

Another (related) myth that has surrounded EFI pumps is if the pump is run dry for even an instant it will be destroyed. Simple not true. They can run dry for days.

Ideally it is best to locate the pump below the tank. However it isn't necessary and won't destroy the pump. There are other things that will kill them, but for the most part they are very robust.

I don't know how any of this applies to Warbro pumps though. I've always used Bosch ones.

Good to know! Which is why i wanted more research. I am now looking at the bosch as i have to replace mine anyway. I have the tank already on its way so i am going with the bottom connections as it appears to be more ideal.
The running dry part i know too well as when i worked at a dealership in the 90s we had people panic all the time. Often when a shady mechanic said it needed to be replaced. Our response was as long as it creates the right pressure and flow, no need to change it. It happened on almost a monthly basis. We only had one that needed replacement. But it was on a explorer that looked like it has been driven through deep mud regularly and the tank had dirt in it.

Odie

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Good to know! Which is why i wanted more research. I am now looking at the bosch as i have to replace mine anyway. I have the tank already on its way so i am going with the bottom connections as it appears to be more ideal.
The running dry part i know too well as when i worked at a dealership in the 90s we had people panic all the time. Often when a shady mechanic said it needed to be replaced. Our response was as long as it creates the right pressure and flow, no need to change it. It happened on almost a monthly basis. We only had one that needed replacement. But it was on a explorer that looked like it has been driven through deep mud regularly and the tank had dirt in it.

Odie

Using the new tank with a lower outlet will be best anyway, to help avoid things like possible momentary starvation from sloshing - thanks to the little internal baffles that the FI tanks have around the pickup area (my earlier carb tanks don't have that) and having gravity to help keep the lower outlet supplied. That's always preferred, just not absolutely essential.

Your example from the dealership is a good one. Contamination is one of the most common reasons for pump failures. They have an internal screen "filter" that is not serviceable. If that filter gets a lot of crud in it then it not only restricts the fuel flow, but increases the pump's workload considerably. The increased resistance will lead to a shorter pump life. Same with insufficient gauge wires or other electrical supply issues (the other most common reason for failed pumps); these pumps need a LOT of current to run correctly. Without it they are overworked and suffer premature failure. Don or any of our other electrical experts could better explain why that is. But a relay with a high capacity power feed is a good idea. Even a small drop causes a big decrease in the pump's output. On my benchtop EFI test rig I had a bad wire to the pump. Apparently it was a manufacturing defect within the wire itself and over time caused a decrease in current to the pump. Took me a long time to figure out why all of the pumps I tested were not performing correctly. And that might be something you should check on your set up, to make sure the issue isn't the pump itself.

Bosch, just like all of the big parts manufacturers today, has manufacturing plants all around the world. Some of those plants produce inventory that is intended for certain market economies that require a lower price point product. In some cases that means a lower quality of merchandise. But for the most part pretty much any Bosch pump you will get should be fine. Online you will see a lot of the "004" pumps that come from Hungary at a very good price. They seem to be holding up well, I'd have no problem buying one if I needed a really high volume/high pressure pump. For most applications under 500 HP you won't need that much pump. But for the price it isn't a bad choice because they are a heavy duty design. Otherwise most any of the Bosch EFI pumps will be sufficient for our engines.

 

[Eastep]

7-7-20

Yesterday my buddy Brian and I
washed, clayed, cut and buffed my X, as well as changed the 2 year old oil, then made a nice 2hr drive home.
Thanks Brian!


7-8-20
Today I tidied up the lower rockers with some textured stone chip, used on rock crawers/ off road trucks. I also got around to installing a new alternator and wrapping my exhaust pipes with titanium heat wrap.
FYI that wrap stuff is a PITA!!

look at it shine!! ^^^^

 

[JimD]

7-7-20

Yesterday my buddy Brian and I
washed, clayed, cut and buffed my X, as well as changed the 2 year old oil, then made a nice 2hr drive home.
Thanks Brian!


7-8-20
Today I tidied up the lower rockers with some textured stone chip, used on rock crawers/ off road trucks. I also got around to installing a new alternator and wrapping my exhaust pipes with titanium heat wrap.
FYI that wrap stuff is a PITA!!

What happened to the fancy wheels Mike????

 

[DanielForest]

7-7-20

Yesterday my buddy Brian and I
washed, clayed, cut and buffed my X, as well as changed the 2 year old oil, then made a nice 2hr drive home.
Thanks Brian!


7-8-20
Today I tidied up the lower rockers with some textured stone chip, used on rock crawers/ off road trucks. I also got around to installing a new alternator and wrapping my exhaust pipes with titanium heat wrap.
FYI that wrap stuff is a PITA!!look at it shine!! ^^^^ View attachment 34192

Looking at the fourth pic, I'm trying to understand. You are on a highway and according to your instruments, you are going 0 mph/h and have no gas. Or is this your instruments that aren't working?

 

[JNewm]

I also got around to installing a new alternator and wrapping my exhaust pipes with titanium heat wrap.
FYI that wrap stuff is a PITA!!

Looking good!! I'm super intrigued by the header-wrap project. Have you taken it out for a spin to see whether the wrap helps keep engine-bay temps down? (I used it on an old Yamaha chopper once, but that was solely to keep from burning my legs on the pipes...)

 

[Mike Schofield]

i hear you with the titanium wrap being a pain! I have the Vicks header and muffler combo and ended up just removing the header completely and wrapping it that way. Now, getting the combo re-installed using only a floor jack....that was a serious pain in the a$s!
As far as engine bay temps going down? I can guarantee a significant difference. Although I don’t have any numbers to back it up...”pre wrap” ,the bay got super hot.

 

[Eastep]

What happened to the fancy wheels Mike????

They're going back on soon. These are my beater wheels, when I store the car.
Keeps from flat spotting, my good rubber.

 

[Eastep]

Looking at the fourth pic, I'm trying to understand. You are on a highway and according to your instruments, you are going 0 mph/h and have no gas. Or is this your instruments that aren't working?

Speedo broke. Not like I care about speed limits or how fast I'm driving, anyway.

 

[Eastep]

Looking good!! I'm super intrigued by the header-wrap project. Have you taken it out for a spin to see whether the wrap helps keep engine-bay temps down? (I used it on an old Yamaha chopper once, but that was solely to keep from burning my legs on the pipes...)

Not sure about engine bay Temps. I have my rain tray removed, along with the access panel for the trunk and all the underside shielding.
I did notice the fresh wrap was smoking rather significantly for the first mile or so. Might have been grease from dirty fingers, though.

 

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

7-7-20

Yesterday my buddy Brian and I
washed, clayed, cut and buffed my X, as well as changed the 2 year old oil, then made a nice 2hr drive home.
Thanks Brian!


7-8-20
Today I tidied up the lower rockers with some textured stone chip, used on rock crawers/ off road trucks. I also got around to installing a new alternator and wrapping my exhaust pipes with titanium heat wrap.
FYI that wrap stuff is a PITA!!View attachment 34189View attachment 34190View attachment 34191look at it shine!! ^^^^ View attachment 34192View attachment 34193View attachment 34194View attachment 34195View attachment 34196View attachment 34197View attachment 34198View attachment 34199

My P.O did the black rocker paint thing, which personally I could live without, but I do understand the practicality of doing so.

You guys did some serious "wax on wax off", she's looking like a million bucks!

Hopefully runk floor rust remediation is on the to-do list?

 

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

Bosch FI fuel pumps underwent a complete redesign several (many?) years ago. Bosch sold out to a larger umbrella corp that wanted to streamline their product listings. The list of part numbers went down to a fraction of what they were, now using one pump for what was previously many different applications. The reorganization also changed the pumps design internally. Previously there were a couple of types, now they are all the same type. The 'current' design pumps have no problem drawing (sucking) fuel up to it. And for that matter it was only certain of the older designs that did not handle it well. The internet seems to have created a bit of folklore on this subject. In fact there are OEM systems that have the pump placed above the tank. That was one of the reasons for redesigning the pumps, so they could be used in such applications.

Another (related) myth that has surrounded EFI pumps is if the pump is run dry for even an instant it will be destroyed. Simple not true. They can run dry for days.

Ideally it is best to locate the pump below the tank. However it isn't necessary and won't destroy the pump. There are other things that will kill them, but for the most part they are very robust.

I don't know how any of this applies to Warbro pumps though. I've always used Bosch ones.

A lot of the part number consolidation came from eliminating application specific characteristics that could be remediated with a more universal part supplemented by a little field modification with supplied generic accessories.

For example, the application-specific Bosch pump for the X1/9 has male spade (aka quick disconnects) connectors to mate with the original wiring harness' female spade connectors. The two replacement part numbers (69133 and 69414) appear to be the same pump body as original, with the only visible difference being the electrical connection points are studs intended to mate with ring terminals. #69133 is a kit with crimp-on ring terminals, securing nuts, a length of hose and some clamps, which in the case of the X facilitates cutting off the OEM wiring harness female spade terminals to replace them with female ring terminals; while #69414 is only the pump body and nothing else.

Personally I try to avoid irreversible surgery on the original wiring harness where possible, so I used these nifty spade-to-ring adapters when I installed a new current-issue Bosch 69414 pump.

 

[Mike Schofield]

Not sure about engine bay Temps. I have my rain tray removed, along with the access panel for the trunk and all the underside shielding.
I did notice the fresh wrap was smoking rather significantly for the first mile or so. Might have been grease from dirty fingers, though.

If you went with the dei engineering product which it looks like perhaps you did, I believe it states that it will smoke upon first start-up for a period of time. Mine did the exact same thing for the first half hour or so and then the smoking went away. So, this is normal.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

A lot of the part number consolidation came from eliminating application specific characteristics that could be remediated with a more universal part supplemented by a little field modification with supplied generic accessories.

For example, the application-specific Bosch pump for the X1/9 has male spade (aka quick disconnects) connectors to mate with the original wiring harness' female spade connectors. The two replacement part numbers (69133 and 69414) appear to be the same pump body as original, with the only visible difference being the electrical connection points are studs intended to mate with ring terminals. #69133 is a kit with crimp-on ring terminals, securing nuts, a length of hose and some clamps, which in the case of the X facilitates cutting off the OEM wiring harness female spade terminals to replace them with female ring terminals; while #69414 is only the pump body and nothing else.

Personally I try to avoid irreversible surgery on the original wiring harness where possible, so I used these nifty spade-to-ring adapters when I installed a new current-issue Bosch 69414 pump.

I received copies of the Bosch releases detailing all of the revisions to their catalog of part numbers. The actual internal design of all pumps was changed to a common "modern" design for the entire line now - previously there were at least three different types used for different applications. Naturally that isn't something that can be visualized externally.

As far as the external changes, that's more application specific as you say. Some now come with a sleeve to change the overall outside diameter, some have a replaceable fitting on either end to allow changes to match vehicles, some have other adaptations like you described.

One interesting change is in the actual specs. The reduction in inventory means now there are certain "standardized" performance levels; many of the prior model numbers had different flow and/or pressure specs for each given application, now the pump with the closest specs is called for. That means many applications will not be the same as before. Apparently it isn't that critical and Bosch is confident the replacements will work fine.

 

[Eastep]

If you went with the dei engineering product which it looks like perhaps you did, I believe it states that it will smoke upon first start-up for a period of time. Mine did the exact same thing for the first half hour or so and then the smoking went away. So, this is normal.

I bought mine off of Amazon for like $16 shipped. I think its from Dei's ware house. Looks the exact same as the $50 stuff in the store.

 

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

I received copies of the Bosch releases detailing all of the revisions to their catalog of part numbers. The actual internal design of all pumps was changed to a common "modern" design for the entire line now - previously there were at least three different types used for different applications. Naturally that isn't something that can be visualized externally.

As far as the external changes, that's more application specific as you say. Some now come with a sleeve to change the overall outside diameter, some have a replaceable fitting on either end to allow changes to match vehicles, some have other adaptations like you described.

One interesting change is in the actual specs. The reduction in inventory means now there is are certain "standardized" performance levels; many of the prior model numbers had different flow and/or pressure specs for each given application, now the pump with the closest specs is called for. That means many applications will not be the same as before. Apparently it isn't that critical and Bosch is confident the replacements will work fine.

Does your documentation tell us what year Bosch implemented the "turbine technology" in the new line of pumps? The ad copy extolls the virtues of the technology's ability to aid hot starts, something that would appeal to the FI X owner. I'm curious if the pump I got around 2013 or 2014 is of this new design.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Does your documentation tell us what year Bosch implemented the "turbine technology" in the new line of pumps? The ad copy extolls the virtues of the technology's ability to aid hot starts, something that would appeal to the FI X owner. I'm curious if the pump I got around 2013 or 2014 is of this new design.

Dan, the turbine technology is the 'new' design I was referring to. That change was done for all of their pumps as part of the reorganization, which off the top of my head might have been about 8+ years ago - perhaps even longer (I'd have to look it up to be sure). I'll see if it is on my old harddrive to check the date. But I pretty sure it was well before your pump was purchased in 2013, so I bet you have it. I have no idea if it actually helps with things like hot starts, etc.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Does your documentation tell us what year Bosch implemented the "turbine technology" in the new line of pumps?

Dan, at least one of the documents I received was dated 2009. So that was about when the changes were made. So your new pump will be one with the newer design, assuming it wasn't one that a vendor had sitting on a shelf for decades.

[Did you get the PM I sent you?]

 

[AKimball92]

Prepped the X for the longest trip its driven since the weekend I bought it. We are doing a full afternoon cruise which starts 1.5 hours away from my house. I've gone over the vehicle this whole week, checked my fluids, restored my wooden steering wheel (future post), and torqued down the rear suspension while under the car. I need to wash the car at dawn and head out towards Ann Arbor.