What is the correct oil?

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by arc12111, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. vircar

    vircar original owner

    Location:
    brooklyn new york
    dont need it

    i got over 40 gals of olive oil from my private estate and 20lbs of olives with the pits
     
    myronx19 likes this.
  2. Black-Tooth

    Black-Tooth Tony Natoli

    Well... folks only need so much Olive Oil... now if you...

    were talking GRAPES... that's another story.

    Paging Danny Mascari!!!
     
  3. FIAT BERTONE

    FIAT BERTONE Daily Driver

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Anybody try valvoline VR1 in their X?
     
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Although VR1 has a high zinc content, making it a great "break in" oil, it is a racing formula and therefore does not have the usual additives that normal oils do for daily use. It is intended for applications that change the oil after almost every use, not for vehicles that keep the same oil for long periods and intermittent use. So it really isn't a great choice in your street car, but a good choice for a track only X1/9.
     
  5. Eastep

    Eastep True Classic

    Location:
    PA
    Mobil-1 10w30 with an M1-204A filter, currently.

    Car smokes on startup, after sitting for more then a day or so. This is due mostly to worn Sten seals or guides. It smokes with conventional as well. Goes away when up to operating temp.

    No extra leaks o from every orifice or other folklore BS, that you may hear regarding synthetic oil. It's good, and should be used.

    Will be using Quaker State 10w30 or 10w40, conventional, when I change the oil, in the spring. This is only because I bought 22qts for $7, and I need to use it up. Will use a Mobil-1 or Mahle filter.
    (I have one of each, sitting around)
    Wix, Bosch and Mann are also very good filters.
    Amsoil and Pentosin are also good oils.
     
  6. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    I switched to VR1 some years back after I had an inexplicable cam failure - three lobes were toast with no journal wear. It was recommended for older design engines that can use the zinc protection. No issues since. I don't see any reason to use other than conventional, readily available synthetic in the appropriate grade for an engine that isn't particular :D
     
  7. RZSR X

    RZSR X True Classic

    I'm a long time believer in Castrol 20/50 for any and all classic cars (although I never see lower than say 15 degree temps a couple times a year). Even my performance engine builder recommended 20/50 for my X after the break in oil. I also use it on my '88 VW Vanagon. Now on my 2000 TT Quattro I use the recommended synthetic oil as that's all it's even known and it was originally designed for synthetic.

    I had my VW motor rebuilt at 167K, broke it in with dino oil then after the first or second oil change switched to synthetic. The rings never set and I had to have the motor rebuilt 40K later. Now at 416K I've had no problems and the motor is still running strong on only Castrol 20/50.
     
    Mike Schofield likes this.
  8. kmead

    kmead Old enough to know better

    Location:
    Michigan
  9. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Admittedly the info I have about it not being used for regular street applications was not from Valvoline, but from a independant test facility. So it might not be correct. I'd go by whatever Valvoline says about its use, and therefore any liability they might have. Thanks to Karl for the added info. ;)
     
    kmead likes this.
  10. kmead

    kmead Old enough to know better

    Location:
    Michigan
    Sorry it wasn’t meant as a ding, I need to adjust how I write things.

    Oil, oil filters and air filters are all like the subjects at the Sunday dinner table you don’t talk about :)
     
    lookforjoe likes this.
  11. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    It certainly wasn't taken as a ding. It made me realize that the info I had may not be current. Apparently Valvoline has changed the formula for their VR "racing" oils at some point. If I'm not mistaken the original version was strictly intended for racing (which is the product I read about from the independent test lab). Going from fuzzy memory that one may have just been called "VR" and not "VR1"? Not sure about that part. But apparently the current version (from a few/several years back) has been changed to include the needed additives for regular use. Hopefully someone can verify this, but nonetheless I'd follow whatever Valvoline currently recommends. ;)

    On the topic of synthetic vs non-synthetic. There is a lot of interesting info on what constitutes "synthetic". But I won't get into that. As Karl rightfully said, oil preference is very subjective. If you really enjoy reading a lot of banter about oils then go to the forum "Bob is the oil guy". Cheese and rice, you could read there for decades and not find a single agreement.
     
    kmead likes this.
  12. FIAT BERTONE

    FIAT BERTONE Daily Driver

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Thanks
     
  13. FIAT BERTONE

    FIAT BERTONE Daily Driver

    Location:
    Kentucky
  14. myronx19

    myronx19 True Classic

    Location:
    Toronto, ON Canada
    All modern API SN oils are low zinc (ZDDP more specifically). Apparently that isn't ideal for a flat tappet engine. ZDDP also has properties that makes it ideal for rust prevention and infrequent use (long storage/winter storage). I would imagine that SN PLUS has even lower ZDDP content.

    Anyhow, my 2 cents - I now use Driven HR1 (conventional oil) in my X1/9. It's a 15W50 oil, and I change it once a year ~5000kms. ZDDP is ~1200ppm (I have a catalytic converter, so higher ZDDP isn't ideal, or necessary). We all worry about using the right gear lube, we shouldn't cheap out on oil! (I used to buy the $15 Castrol GTX 10W40 for 5L for my X1/9 all the time, but the ZDDP is very low in all of these modern over the counter oils). Also, diesel oils now have low ZDDP as well. If you have a high lift cam with heavy duty springs, it matters even more. OK, there's a lot more science behind this - but even oil manufacturers are saying to use oils with ZDDP (Castrol makes a classic oil, not available in North America though). I believe the Valvoline VR1 indeed has high ZDDP, but I don't believe that it's API certified but says can be used in SN applications but not recommended for catalytic converters (no API logo on the bottle). Uff - this is confusing!


    Anyhow, my choice is now Driven HR1 or Driven's synthetics if I ever finish my turbo engine! I also use Driven HR5 (10W-40) in my 1976 Chrysler Cordoba :) which is also a flat tappet engine with hydraulic lifters. My friend uses HR1 in his Ferrari 308 (2valve carbed). It also says it's safe for use with Catalytic converters which is important to me.

    I love oil Threads... I see Tony loves them too!! hahah.. :)

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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
    Dr.Jeff likes this.
  15. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I concur with Myron's comments about ZDDP content in oils. For a long time people used a Shell diesel oil product in their older cars due to the high ZDDP content. However Shell has changed all of their formulas (as have all oil makers) to remove the high ZDDP levels from all oils approved for normal use in street vehicles (including diesels), as mandated by government regulations. I believe this is why Valvoline VR1 may not be fully approved as a normal use oil, due it still having high ZDDP levels. It would not meet the regulations for such applications with that level of zinc. However I'm not sure if that necessarily means it isn't good to use in our cars. But these are only my opinions and I have not researched it recently, so things may have changed from what I understand.

    Previously I posted a link to a recent article from Classic Motorsports magazine where they interviewed several oil industry experts about oils for older cars:
    https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/adding-oil-to-the-fire.37205/
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
    myronx19 likes this.
  16. ng_randolph

    ng_randolph Bjorn H

    Location:
    SF Bay area
    Chris, a colorful former member from St. Louis, wrote a post about oils for our cars. (Don't try finding the post; it has been deleted). The conclusion was that we should look for oils with high HTHS viscosity (HTHS = High Temperature / High Shear) for engines with flat tappets like the Lampredi SOHC enigne. The ACEA A3/B3 grade of oils fit this description, and this is what I have been using. But with the miles I put on my X1/9 I could probably fill the oil pan with apple sauce and never experience a problem.
     
  17. myronx19

    myronx19 True Classic

    Location:
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Interesting! I searched the Driven site, and sure enough they offer something that fits that bill - and says it's good for flat tappet applications (couldn't find a spec sheet for ZDDP, but the viscosity is identical to the original 15W40 spec in the manual)

    upload_2019-11-15_21-41-54.png
     
  18. Mike Schofield

    Mike Schofield True Classic

    Looks like summit racing sells it...
     
    myronx19 likes this.
  19. Mike Schofield

    Mike Schofield True Classic

    Myron, where do you get your Driven oil from? I tried summit racing but the website says it doesn’t ship to my area code in Canada...
     
    myronx19 likes this.
  20. myronx19

    myronx19 True Classic

    Location:
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Hi Mike! (nice to see so many fellow Canadians, and Ontarians!) - so I travel to Michigan for business a lot, so I have it shipped to our office there (lucky me!, lol..) However, Performance Improvements does sell it in Canada and I imagine they will ship to you if there isn't a local store to you. There's a store near me in Etobicoke. I believe JRP Performance sells it as well. It's not cheap, but considering how little we drive these things I think it's worth the investment at $15 CAD/quart bottle.

    https://performanceimprovements.com/pages/product-list?itemNumber=Driven
     
    Mike Schofield likes this.

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