Why does my Spider sit at an angle?

[Austin]

My Spider has developed a pronounced list to the left. Rear driver's side is obviously sagging, yet the initial visual inspection didn't show me anything obvious.

I have new tires on order and plan to look more closely while pulling wheels and such, but what should I be looking closely at? Do the coil springs ever fracture?

 

[kmead]

My Spider has developed a pronounced list to the left. Rear driver's side is obviously sagging, yet the initial visual inspection didn't show me anything obvious.

I have new tires on order and plan to look more closely while pulling wheels and such, but what should I be looking closely at? Do the coil springs ever fracture?

Possible but doesn’t generally happen in my experience. How bad is the rust on the car?

 

[Austin]

Possible but doesn’t generally happen in my experience. How bad is the rust on the car?

I haven't seen any significant rust in or around the suspension mounting points, but that's my biggest fear. The only rust found was a couple of spots at the lowest point of the floor pan.

I'd think if rust-through had lead to a collapse, I'd be able to see it pretty easily, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

 

[NM850]

If there is no rust issue it might just be that the spring is what? almost 50 years old.
I worked on a Spider that was low in the rear and new springs brought it up level.
It could also be that the old bushings are binding, did you try bouncing it up and down?
If you need a spring and you don't want to spring for a new one (pun intended) let me know, I have several sets.

 

[Jeff Stich]

My Spider has developed a pronounced list to the left. Rear driver's side is obviously sagging, yet the initial visual inspection didn't show me anything obvious.

I have new tires on order and plan to look more closely while pulling wheels and such, but what should I be looking closely at? Do the coil springs ever fracture?

The springs don't normally fracture, but they can sag a bit due to age & specific loads applied over the lifespan of the car up until now. Might've had a "heavy" previous owner who also happened to have a lead foot?

You might try swapping the rear coil springs from side to side (left to right & vice versa), do some hard driving to let the car settle back in (maybe a few days worth), then compare the rear heights again. This will tell you if it's just a weak coil (if it now makes the right/rear sag) or not.

 

[Austin]

This week I replaced the tires on the rear. After lifting the car and swapping the tires, it's less pronounced but still not level. Couldn't see any rust-through but I am wondering if the driver's side lower shock mount point is bent. What say the hive mind?

Passenger side, which sits normally:

Driver's side, which sits low:

Driver's side, closer view:

 

[kmead]

Shocks, at least these, won’t affect ride height.

If the shocks are still good you should think about new rubber bits for the mounts.

I would go along with idea of the spring being a bit sagged due to a heavier driver over many years.

 

[Jeff Stich]

This week I replaced the tires on the rear. After lifting the car and swapping the tires, it's less pronounced but still not level. Couldn't see any rust-through but I am wondering if the driver's side lower shock mount point is bent. What say the hive mind?

Lower shock mounting points look ok to me, but your lower shock bushings are complete crap - replace them, they're cheap & easy to do (4 rubber donuts, 2 per side). Your passenger-side inner axle boot appears to have spit out the axle seal/holder assembly, as well? Definitely want to fix that before driving the car any further.

Besides the sagging-spring scenario, some other possible causes for the rear not sitting level (side-to-side) might be:

- Missing or trashed upper coil spring mount - (ribbed rubber insert with metal surround).

- Ill-fitting coil spring & upper mount union (improperly "clocked" upper mount, so the end/tip of the coil isn't situated into the upper mount correctly). This would cause that particular side of the car to sit higher than normal.

- Ill-fitting coil spring & lower mount union (improperly "clocked" coil spring, so the end/tip of the coil isn't correctly situated into the center of the swing arm - there's a vertical metal tab in there to keep the spring from rotating. Some people ignore it & just jam the spring in there on top of that tab). This would also cause that particular side of the car to sit higher than normal.

- Non-stock (or modified/hacked) coil spring on one side of the car.

Can you post a photo or two of the rear of your car showing the unbalanced stance you're seeing?

 

[kmead]

Perhaps a photo of the car when jacked up higher showing the top spring perches as viewed from below to see if the springs are properly seated as Jeff indicates above.

 

[Austin]

Thanks for the feedback.

I tried to get a picture that would show the droop in left rear, but realized that after putting it back down, it is much less noticeable than before.

That being said, after reading the suggestions and comparing the two sides, it looks to me like the passenger side coil might not be properly engaged and would therefore be higher than it's supposed to be. It certainly doesn't look like it's aligned with the "holder" or spring seat, but I haven't looked again after lowering it.

Now more concerned about the "passenger-side inner axle boot appears to have spit out the axle seal/holder assembly" Inner, to me, means the joint at the differential/transaxle. In trying to compare the two, I don't yet know how to spot the problem. The Haynes manual is about useless.

P.S. thanks for the head's up on the shock bushings. I'm putting together an order from Midwest-Bayless and will definitely replace those.

 

[kmead]

Jeff is referring to the conical object you can see along the axle just a little bit away from the axle boot. It should be in the end of the axle boot. It serves to keep oil in the transaxle and differential. This is something you want in there. You will need to unbolt the 3 bots that hold the rubber boot on the transaxle. Then move the rubber boot outward to recapture the axle seal holder.

I have lightened and cropped your image to show the offending part along the right side axle.

Jeff has a very sharp, well trained eye. If he suggests something its likely worth pursuing.

 

[Austin]

Jeff is referring to the conical object you can see along the axle just a little bit away from the axle boot. It should be in the end of the axle boot. It serves to keep oil in the transaxle and differential. This is something you want in there. You will need to unbolt the 3 bots that hold the rubber boot on the transaxle. Then move the rubber boot outward to recapture the axle seal holder.

I have lightened and cropped your image to show the offending part along the right side axle.

Jeff has a very sharp, well trained eye. If he suggests something its likely worth pursuing.

View attachment 5395

Thank you, and just to be clear, not doubting the advice in the slightest, just wasn't understanding it well. It has turned very hot here, so not very easy to look in person at the moment. At least not till sun down (which also makes seeing it well enough more difficult).

 

[kmead]

Sorry it wasn’t meant as an admonishment, just a “so that you know” as Jeff has been at this a long time.

You will likely need to remove the axle entirely to put things back together properly.

Make sure you work on a level surface, your driveway looks pretty sloped. Put the body of the car up on jackstands. You likely will need to raise the semi trailing arm to be able to remove and install the four bolts into the flexible joint behind the brake assembly.

Remove the four bolts at the outer part of the axle and the four bolts at the rubber boot. Don’t drop the two “stones” which are the interface into the differential for the axle. There should be a spring inside the axle end that keeps the axle driven into the differential. You may need to lift the semi trailing arm to get the bolts out and or the axle out. Slide the outer sleeve with its rubber boot off the axle, slide the seal off the axle and then slide the rubber boot off the axle.

To reassemble:
First clean up the axle. Particularly the splined end so the outer sleeve will slide nicely on it when greased.
Install the seal first into the rubber boot with a small amount of grease, there is a pocket for it to live in and then slide them back down the axle. Take the small rubber boot off the outer sleeve and apply grease inside. Then slide the outer sleeve back onto the axle with its rubber boot (you will want to ensure that grease gets on the axle splines) and install the spring into the end of the axle. Then ensure you have the “stones” properly oriented and slide them into the rectangular openings of the differential, then push the axle into the differential as far as it will go. Bring the other end up and use a paint scraper or other flat steel tool to compress the spring and slide the axle up onto the flex joint. Then slide the outer sleeve down to the back of the flex joint and rebolt it. Carefully thread the fasteners in by hand and then use a torque wrench to get the correct torque on the four bolts to avoid stripping the flex joint out.

Good luck. I am sure I have left something out and Jeff will add to or correct my directions later.