Updated at post 28 - Won't start and I'm stumped.

Michael Oxman

The Journey Begins!
So after about two years and 3000 miles one day the X wouldn't start. It sounded like it wanted to so I let it crank and burned out the starter as is detailed in another thread. I also broke and replaced the distributor cap. So now I've confirmed that its getting spark, air and fuel but all I get is one little rhythmic catch as you can hear in the video. I also checked the two fuses marked F.I. in the fuse box. I would do the more intrusive electronic testing as is in the Fuel Injection manual, but over the course of three weeks it has started twice. Once it ran fine but wouldn't restart, and once it ran for a sec and died. I was wondering if the sound was indicative of something. Thanks.

 
Humor us a bit: explain how you know spark, air, and fuel are good.

Compression? After extended cranking sometimes compression is low due to fuel washing the bores. Does your dipstick have a gasoline odor? A quick temporary fix here would be to squirt a small amt of engine oil in each cyl. If that fixes the issue then depending upon how strong the fuel odor, an oil change is probably cheap insurance.

For more detailed testing, pick up a loaner comp testing kit at a local chain parts store and check that off the list if possible.

Then check engine timing to ensure that the belt hasn't jumped one or more teeth.

After that, we'd have to pop the cam box cover off to see if there is anything amiss up top.
 
Last edited:
Humor us a bit: explain how you know spark, air, and fuel are good.

Compression? After extended cranking sometimes compression is low due to fuel washing the bores. Does your dipstick have a gasoline odor? A quick temporary fix here would be to squirt a small amt of engine oil in each cyl. If that fixes the issue then depending upon how strong the fuel odor, an oil change is probably cheap insurance.

For more detailed testing, pick up a loaner comp testing kit at a local chain parts store and check that off the list if possible.

Then check engine timing to ensure that the belt hasn't jumped one or more tooth.

After that, we'd have to pop the cam box cover off to see if there is anything amiss up top.
Thanks Dan. I pulled the wire off the coil and grounded it and got spark. I pulled the cold start injector and cranked the car and got a nice spray. After reading your message I just went outside and smelled the dipstick and I think it DOES smell like fuel. That's a new one to me - what does it mean?
 
+1 on the timing belt jumping. Happened to me last summer.
Let's say the timing belt jumps a tooth. I'm trying to picture why that would matter. It's not like there is a specific beginning or end to it. Wouldn't it just be the equivalent of having put the belt on one tooth over originally? Or is it that only one section had a tooth jump?
 
If the timing belt jumps a tooth, that means the relation between the cam and crank is no longer correct. When the piston is at TDC the valves are not where they are supposed to be. Your dynamic compression will be all messed up. Imagine the piston is at TDC and the intake valves remain closed until the piston is half way down the cylinder. The piston only has half the bore's travel to suck in new air and fuel. That isn't going to run correctly or at all. That's an extreme example, but hopefully explains the idea.
 
Thanks Dan. I pulled the wire off the coil and grounded it and got spark. I pulled the cold start injector and cranked the car and got a nice spray. After reading your message I just went outside and smelled the dipstick and I think it DOES smell like fuel. That's a new one to me - what does it mean?

Hi Michael,

The gas gets in the oil when you repeatedly crank the engine without it starting. The gas eventually washes the oil off the cylinder walls which affects its ability to achieve proper compression. Dan gave you the quick fix/test. Pull the plugs and squirt some oil into each cylinder. Then try to start the car to see if it starts or at least sounds different.
 
the fuel smell on the dipstick, lack of compression etc is a second order problem. It only occurred [if it did] because of extended cranking and not starting - "fixing" it will not solve the non-start issue. Adding oil to the combustion chambers sounds like a good way to get oiled plugs. It might be a good idea under some circumstances, but I would have thought that an engine that needs it would have to be very, very worn.

If you do squirt "some" oil in, I reckon just a very leetle :)
 
Since the cold start injector sprays it tells us we have fuel pressure (a good thing to check off the list) but it DOES NOT tell us we are getting fuel spraying into each port. It's a bit weird but believe it or not, the cold start injection system has very little crossover/dependency with the "running" fuel injection system.

Please visually confirm that the wire terminals on the coil are as follows: one terminal has a single wire coming from the ballast resistor; the other terminal has a piggyback connector with two connected wires. When futzing around with the distributor and that corner of the engine compartment, it's easy to dislodge the wires on the piggyback connector and not realize it---one of the two leads on the piggyback connector goes to the FI controller and tells it in a manner of sorts when to fire the regular injectors.
 
If the timing belt jumps a tooth, that means the relation between the cam and crank is no longer correct. When the piston is at TDC the valves are not where they are supposed to be. Your dynamic compression will be all messed up. Imagine the piston is at TDC and the intake valves remain closed until the piston is half way down the cylinder. The piston only has half the bore's travel to suck in new air and fuel. That isn't going to run correctly or at all. That's an extreme example, but hopefully explains the idea.
Thanks for all the replies. Before getting full of gas smell again I checked the timing marks, and wouldn't you know it, when the cam pulley is at TDC the crank pulley looks about 5 degrees off. I may just have slipped a tooth after all!! Whoever told me to mark these indicators with a paint marker when I was putting this together gets the helpful tip of the year award for sure!!

When cam pulley lines up:
Cam Mark.jpg


This is where the crank pulley is!

Crank Mark.jpg
 
You can counter-check the crank timing mark by checking the dot on the flywheel against the hash marks/notches cast into the bell housing inspection window, located just below the thermostat housing. From the factory it has a black plastic plug but by this time on most cars the plug will be long gone. You would want to make this counter-check because of the nature of how the timing pointers visible in your pic mount to the front of the engine---because the mounting holes in the tin are bigger than the mounting stud diameter, there is a certain amount of wiggle room that could account for a few degrees one way or another. (Although your pointer seems to be farther away from the pully line than could be accounted for by said wiggle room.)

Be aware that this is not a foolproof check since the flywheel can be mounted to the crank 180 degrees out, which could happen for example if the flywheel were removed to accomplish such repair tasks as resurfacing during a clutch job, or if the rear main seal were replaced.

BTW taking a closer look at what we can see of the timing belt thru the cover inspection window, the edge toward the engine seems to be a bit abraded, the outer surface seems to have an unusual texture, and it seems to be riding a little farther away that you typically see from the inner edge of the cam sprocket. Add all that up and maybe we have a defective/worn belt?
 
Last edited:
You can counter-check the crank timing mark by checking the dot on the flywheel against the hash marks/notches cast into the bell housing inspection window, located just below the thermostat housing. From the factory it has a black plastic plug but by this time on most cars the plug will be long gone. You would want to make this counter-check because of the nature of how the timing pointers visible in your pic mount to the front of the engine---because the mounting holes in the tin are bigger than the mounting stud diameter, there is a certain amount of wiggle room that could account for a few degrees one way or another. (Although your pointer seems to be farther away from the pully line than could be accounted for by said wiggle room.)

Be aware that this is not a foolproof check since the flywheel can be mounted to the crank 180 degrees out, which could happen for example if the flywheel were removed to accomplish such repair tasks as resurfacing during a clutch job, or if the rear main seal were replaced.

BTW taking a closer look at what we can see of the timing belt thru the cover inspection window, the edge toward the engine seems to be a bit abraded, the outer surface seems to have an unusual texture, and it seems to be riding a little farther away that you typically see from the inner edge of the cam sprocket. Add all that up and maybe we have a defective/worn belt?
Ill take a closer look but it only has 3,000 miles on it.
 
This is a "fix everything your know is wrong, then see what's left" situation.

Put the crank on the TDC mark, verify the flywheel mark. The flywheel mark will either be dead on or (unlikely) a full 180 degrees off, so if you can see it at all it's the one you should believe.
Fix the cam timing. This will involve removing the belt and putting it on back on right. Check the tensioner as part of this process, there has to be a reason the belt jumped timing on you. Me, I'd use a new belt... but then again I have three hanging on my basement wall.
Remove the distributor and reinstall with the rotor properly positioned to fire #4 cylinder.
Check your wiring against the rotation of the distributor to be sure that the firing order is right. Check it again, it's amazing how easy it is to get a pair wrong.
Pull the plugs and wirebrush them as your repeated starting attempts may have fouled them. Or just install new plugs, they're cheap.
Try starting, with a timing light hooked up so that you know spark is getting to #1 and/or #4 at the right time.

If you have spark with the proper timing, clean plugs, known good cam timing.... Next step is a compression test, but I'd bet a fair amount that it doesn't come to that.
 
So after about two years and 3000 miles one day the X wouldn't start. It sounded like it wanted to so I let it crank and burned out the starter as is detailed in another thread. I also broke and replaced the distributor cap. So now I've confirmed that its getting spark, air and fuel but all I get is one little rhythmic catch as you can hear in the video. I also checked the two fuses marked F.I. in the fuse box. I would do the more intrusive electronic testing as is in the Fuel Injection manual, but over the course of three weeks it has started twice. Once it ran fine but wouldn't restart, and once it ran for a sec and died. I was wondering if the sound was indicative of something. Thanks.

So a couple of simple things that you may want to try. First is that if you have been cranking the car a lot without it starting, then chances are that the plugs are fouled. Putting in a new set of plugs will give the car the best possible chance to start. The other thing is that you mentioned that you replaced the distributor cap: how did the old one break? Are you 100% sure that when you replaced it you used the correct cap for the distributor and got the high tension leads in the correct order? Are you sure the rotor button is in good shape? Check the carbon contact at the top of the cap as well (these have been known to fall out).

In the video it sounds like only one cylinder is firing: a situation that could be attributed to either of the issues above. In any case (assuming the timing is ok), my money would be on a spark issue over a fuel issue.

Cheers,
Dom.
 
So a couple of simple things that you may want to try. First is that if you have been cranking the car a lot without it starting, then chances are that the plugs are fouled. Putting in a new set of plugs will give the car the best possible chance to start. The other thing is that you mentioned that you replaced the distributor cap: how did the old one break? Are you 100% sure that when you replaced it you used the correct cap for the distributor and got the high tension leads in the correct order? Are you sure the rotor button is in good shape? Check the carbon contact at the top of the cap as well (these have been known to fall out).

In the video it sounds like only one cylinder is firing: a situation that could be attributed to either of the issues above. In any case (assuming the timing is ok), my money would be on a spark issue over a fuel issue.

Cheers,
Dom.
Thanks Dom. Looking at my post 14 I think it's timing but I'll be checking the plugs for sure. As for the distributor, i broke it. The first thing I checked was the distributor cap for corrosion of which there was a little, but when I took some sandpaper to the lugs to clean them off, I didn't know at the time that the center electrode was made out of carbon and when I sanded it I shattered it and then it fell out so I had to replace the cap.
 
Thanks Dom. Looking at my post 14 I think it's timing but I'll be checking the plugs for sure. As for the distributor, i broke it. The first thing I checked was the distributor cap for corrosion of which there was a little, but when I took some sandpaper to the lugs to clean them off, I didn't know at the time that the center electrode was made out of carbon and when I sanded it I shattered it and then it fell out so I had to replace the cap.
There are a few versions of the distributor cap with different pin outs from the inside to the outside so check that as you are fiddling around.

Please change your oil as it has been notably contaminated with gasoline which breaks the oil down.

Beyond that you have received excellent advice.
 
Back
Top