WTB: Pittatore 377 aka Alquati A16/377 Camshaft, or Euro Camshaft

Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

Waitin' On Parts...
Want To Buy:

Pittatore 377 aka Alquati A16/377 camshaft, specs 28/68 10.9mm lift

Also entertaining the alternate idea of a stock Euro camshaft for 1500, FIAT part number 4333059.
 
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Thats what was in the 1300, I sold. :/

Steve C seemed to think that it would be the ticket for an improved FI head retaining the stock FI system. The stock "Euro" camshaft may end up being what I use if I can't find the A16/377, the profile is very similar but the lift is not nearly as good as the 377. Both have the advantage of being stock base circle so no need for lash caps or extra thick shims and shaved camboxes.
 
Steve C seemed to think that it would be the ticket for an improved FI head retaining the stock FI system. The stock "Euro" camshaft may end up being what I use if I can't find the A16/377, the profile is very similar but the lift is not nearly as good as the 377. Both have the advantage of being stock base circle so no need for lash caps or extra thick shims and shaved camboxes.
The A16 is a 40/80 regrind. Ill send you a pic of the original papers I have. It shows duration and such.
 
Alquati A16 comes in about a dozen different varieties... they all have a suffix, like A16/1 or A16/377 etc... denotes exactly what they are.

A16/377 is 28/68 but 10.9 lift, and is a great cam for a mild motor, lots of torque. IMO would be a fantastic cam for an EFI motor with the stock inlet manifolding

SteveC
 
Dan, I thought we agreed that you would get a 1850 conversion started and I would live vicariously through you?
 
I had been away from Xweb (and the Fiat world in general) for awhile so I'm not sure what's on the current market. But seems like I used to see new ones listed for sale; if I recall correctly it was mostly guys in Europe that offered them.
Do any of the more recent Fiat engines use the same design cam (possibly models we never got here)? If so it will offer a wider search pool. Or any cam manufacturers that reproduce new quality clones? [Steve C., any suggestions?]
I agree it would be a good choice for stock US spec cars, without having to go with a smaller base diameter regrind.
 
Stumbled across this old thread:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/euro-1500-cam.23605/#navigation

At the beginning it references this older thread:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/camshaft-help-from-uk-and-european-members.5579/

I read through these however I'm not clear what part numbers or other data is best to use as a guide in searching. Looks like the term "Euro cam" gets thrown around and misused. Anyway, I see the following part numbers mentioned:
4333059
4358713
4331512
Frankly I'm confused, it was a little difficult to follow with missing images, links, etc. Maybe someone can add some clarification?
 
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Looks like the term "Euro cam" gets thrown around and misused. Anyway, I see the following part numbers mentioned
4333059
4358713
4331512

The 3059 and 1512 are the only ones you want. Disregard any other "Euro" cams. Period! Those are the only OE 24/68 cams. There are several NOS 1512's FS on ebay it.
 
Thanks Steve. A couple years ago I had your excellent write-up saved on my hard-drive, but that computer crashed. When I found the article again on-line the links were bad, making it difficult to follow. I really appreciate the 'revived' copy! It's by far the best reference on SOHC mods.

I spent some time searching for Dom's desired cam. The best I could find is 3 listings on the Italy eBay for 'new old stock' Fiat P/N 4331512. Roughly $300 USD (give or take) shipped to the US.
Of the current sources (at least the ones I found) for 'new' aftermarket cams the choices seem to be:
1) US source regrinds with small base circles (but good selection of profiles matching Dom's criteria), and affordable (although I don't really consider a reground cam to be "new").
2) US source new billets with radically more aggressive profiles, also very affordable.
3) Euro source new billets with profiles that appear somewhat close (although they seem to have a different way of describing them*, so its hard to know exactly what they are), around $400+ shipped to the US.

*The specs for cams can be somewhat elusive. As I understand standards are in place for the methods used to describe a cam's specs, which should allow for consistency and the ability to compare / contrast them fairly. However many sources don't seem to follow those standards, nor do they state exactly what criteria they use in describing their products. Furthermore many of the listed descriptions only provide partial (limited) information, making them even less useful. In past experiences with similar issues, attempts to contact the sources and get further data tend to be very time consuming, frustrating, and ultimately unsuccessful.

A couple years ago, when I was more active with X's, there seemed to be a lot more out there. Has the market changed?

[Dom, 'PM' me if you want links to what I found.]
 
maybe something like this would be an option...

http://www.catcams.com/products/camshafts/datasheet.aspx?ENGINE_id=147&CAMSETUP_id=453

Minimal overlap at TDC (only 24 degrees measured at 1mm clearance) and 10.65 total lift, actually looks like it could be Cat cams version of Pitattore's 377 grind.

At 0.1mm clearance it's 280 degrees duration (30/70) ... given that Fiat measures duration at 0.6/ 0.65mm (for the euro 1500 cam) and 0.5mm (for the 1300 euro cam) and Pitattore quote timing at lash clearance (0.3 / 0.3) , it must be quite close to 25/65 or 26/66 at a standard lash clearance of 0.4mm (which is what it looks like when you enlarge the timing chart and try to measure it off)

as Dan is prepping the cylinder head it's worth going for the extra valve lift... if the head was staying standard it would be a bit of a moot point, as flow rate increases drop off after 7/8mm or so of lift.

Jeff, there are loads of options out there... but most people see the $$ cost as a number.

Pitattore , Colombo & Bariani, Kent, Cat, Piper... all make new cams for the SOHC engine. Some are ground from cast blanks of varying qualities, some are nitrided steel billets...but they are all going to cost more than a reground cam.

SteveC
 
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