X1/9 Brake Job for Dummies

Dr.Jeff said:
That junction (#7) is really easy to get to when the engine/trans are out of the car. It's pretty tight otherwise, but doable. If the lines up to that point are good then there is nothing wrong with only replacing the two from there rearward. Be sure to thoroughly flush/clean the remaining lines before adding the new ones. Personally I would not recommend doing a "splice" somewhere in a brake line, although I know it has been done successively many times. I just prefer to have as few joints as possible. So I think replacing them at the junction block is a good approach.
Click to expand...
About to head down to try to tackle this, but first, a quick question: are the flare nuts (and the flares themselves) the same for going into junction #7 as they would be for different lines in the hydraulic system?

I have a good condition front right brake line that I may try to bend into shape for use on the back left into that junction, if they look reasonably close once i pull the old one off. The front right line already has flare nuts/flares, therefore allowing me to avoid the need to buy a set of line tools (without a garage, tool storage is becoming an issue!).
 
JNewm said:
About to head down to try to tackle this, but first, a quick question: are the flare nuts (and the flares themselves) the same for going into junction #7 as they would be for different lines in the hydraulic system?
Click to expand...
In my '74 and '76 these were all the same. The only difference was with the clutch hydraulic line, bigger line so bigger fittings but still a bubble flare.
 
JNewm said:
About to head down to try to tackle this, but first, a quick question: are the flare nuts (and the flares themselves) the same for going into junction #7 as they would be for different lines in the hydraulic system?

I have a good condition front right brake line that I may try to bend into shape for use on the back left into that junction, if they look reasonably close once i pull the old one off. The front right line already has flare nuts/flares, therefore allowing me to avoid the need to buy a set of line tools (without a garage, tool storage is becoming an issue!).
Click to expand...
As has been mentioned, all of the brake fittings are the same size. The clutch fittings are larger but they are all the same to one another. You will want a really good wrench to remove the line nuts. I know you've already done some so hopefully the tool you have should work. However the more fittings you work on, the more likely you are to find some that are frozen. There is a thread that discusses the various tool options for this, hopefully you can find it to see examples if you need something other than what you already have.

I've never tried swapping lines around and off hand have no idea how the lengths compare from one to the other. If it is pretty close in length then you may be able to reuse it. Use a bending tool that supports the tube from crushing or kinking as you bend it. The one I find easy to use and is common (and affordable) looks like this:
5d0c.jpg
 
Thanks guys, much appreciated. Here's the update: I was able to get the old nut off the junction (Junction #7). I've been using the Vice-Grip-style tool that MWB sells specifically for these; it worked pretty well. But on this one, since the line was broken, I just started a box end 10 mm wrench at the broken spot then slid it all the way down the line to the nut at the junction. Worked even better :)

Here's the weird thing: it sure seems like the nuts from the replacement (used) front right line do NOT work on the junction block. I tried and tried but couldn't get the threads to catch. Then I tried the old one again, and it threaded right on.

MWB's website gives a clue what might be going on here; this is from their listing for a brake line flare fitting:

Note: Typically used on exterior brake line connections at the flex hoses, master cylinder, junction blocks, etc.
M10x1.25 coarse thread with 10mm head for ISO bubble flare applications. Examine your threads very closely before ordering, some fittings at brake junctions are a 3/8-24 thread

I don't know what a "3/8-24" thread is, but I'm guessing that's what I've got at the junction block. EDIT: looks like it's an American size (3/8") with 24 threads per inch, which I'm guessing is finer than the "coarse thread" M10x1.25s.
 
You know now that you mention it I vaguely recall hearing something about that before. That there were some X's with a few American (SAE) sized nuts at certain points. My apology for misleading you, I've never had one that was a different size. I think the different one would be at a caliper/hose end, not a master or junction block. So for example the other end of the line you tried may fit the block. But I don't know - heck I was completely wrong about this already.

The 3/8-24 is a very common size and easily found at local parts stores. As you say it is for typical American applications. But that doesn't help you here. Are both ends of the rear line you took off the same size? And what year is your X?
 
It's a 1981. They are different--although they look the same to the naked eye! Apparently 3/8 is just a smidge different from 10mm, and the threads must be just a bit finer. It's close, but not quite close enough.

Now I'm off to try to flare a brake line for the first time o_O

EDIT: now, why wouldn't this flaring tool include a die?? I need one of those to make a bubble flare; don't I? I've just got the mandrel thing and the clamp. No die! Good grief.
 
For a bubble type flare you will need a die. It sounds like maybe the one you have is for standard SAE 45 degree single flares. I'll use a generic photo to illustrate things.

Does the end of yours look like a cone (yellow box)? That is for SAE single flares, not Bubble:

1000.jpg


The dies in that picture (blue circle) are for SAE double (with a "D") flares, also not Bubble (with a "B"). However a Bubble flare tool will have dies that look similar, but they are not interchangeable.

There are several types of flaring tools that are made for Bubble flares. Some look very similar to the one above, with a frame (black arrow) that clamps over the pipe (brake line tube) and a yoke (red arrow) and dies (similar to blue box but for Bubble). But there is no cone (yellow) on the mandrel of the yoke, instead the dies screw directly into the end of the mandrel.

There are also more expensive types of Bubble flare tools that look completely different. There's different opinions on what works and what doesn't. In my opinion it matters more on proper technique than tool. However there are many factors, and I recently realized one that can be a problem if you need to flare a X clutch pipe. The X uses pipes that are SAE (inch) size, but bubble style nuts which are metric (mm) size. That can pose a problem if the frame (black) with the bubble flare kit is for metric and you are using it on the X's clutch line that's SAE. There is enough difference in the diameters of the metric and SAE dimensions on the clutch size pipe that the metric frame will not work. Thankfully this problem does not exist for the X's brake lines, because it happens that the metric and SAE diameters work out to be the same for that size pipe.
 
Just so you are aware, when they say 3/8 - 24 the 3/8 is referring to the diameter of the fitting in inches and the 24 is saying there are 24 "threads" for each inch along the length of the fitting. Same with M10 -1.25, diameter is ~10 millimetres and there are 1.25 threads for each millimetre of length.
 
Job done! The car not only goes, but stops. It was convoluted indeed. @Dr.Jeff you were right; I accidentally bought a single-flare tool. I bought a bubble-flare kit at Advance Auto and was able to get the job done. I cut the front-left line down to approximate size, then installed the old 3/8 - 24 nut onto that line, then flared it. Installed into Junction #7, just kinda bent the line into shape by hand, tightened everything up, bled the brakes, realized the pedal was still soft, bled the brakes again, refilled the coolant (I had to disconnect a hose to get at that junction), burped the coolant system, put the wheels back on, and went for a drive!

Here's what the junction looks like, for anyone reading through this in the future. This is against the firewall in the engine compartment (the gas tank is on the other side of the firewall). You can see the replacement line coming straight toward the viewer--that's heading toward the driver-side rear wheelwell.
1613865404983.png


And here's the other end of the line, coming through into the rear wheel well:
1613865524054.png


Not an easy job, but not impossible, even for a *dummie*... So long as you have a ton of help from the members of this forum, and a significant other willing to help bleed the brakes. :)
 
Heey, my first X trophy! Much appreciated. I'll honestly say that this whole rear brake job was the hardest thing I've done yet, but--as with all hard jobs--very rewarding. Learned a lot about how hydraulic brake lines work. Thanks again for the advice. This forum is a truly special place.
 
Shouldn’t there be a brake hose retaining clip on the wheel arch bracket? And a bodywork grommet to stop the line rubbing on the inner wing.....

X1/9 Hose Retaining Clip : Eurosport (UK), FIAT X19 Bertone & Lancia Montecarlo Beta Scorpion spare parts

Eurosport (UK) : X1/9 Hose Retaining Clip - FIAT X1/9 Gift Certificates Lancia Montecarlo Eurosport (UK), FIAT, Bertone, X1/9, X 1/9, X1-9, X 1-9, X19, X 19, Lancia, Beta, Montecarlo, Monte Carlo, Scorpion, New, Car, Auto, Replacement, Parts, Spare, Spares, Repair, Panels, Performance, Tuning...
www.eurosport-uk.net
 
NEG said:
Shouldn’t there be a brake hose retaining clip on the wheel arch bracket? And a bodywork grommet to stop the line rubbing on the inner wing.....

X1/9 Hose Retaining Clip : Eurosport (UK), FIAT X19 Bertone & Lancia Montecarlo Beta Scorpion spare parts

Eurosport (UK) : X1/9 Hose Retaining Clip - FIAT X1/9 Gift Certificates Lancia Montecarlo Eurosport (UK), FIAT, Bertone, X1/9, X 1/9, X1-9, X 1-9, X19, X 19, Lancia, Beta, Montecarlo, Monte Carlo, Scorpion, New, Car, Auto, Replacement, Parts, Spare, Spares, Repair, Panels, Performance, Tuning...
www.eurosport-uk.net
Click to expand...
Sharp eye! Yes to both--this was an "in-progress" pic, but both are installed now.

On the retaining-clip note, I saw someone post something somewhere about maybe using Plasti-Dip for the wheelwell brackets because its formulation might make it somewhat brake-fluid-resistant. (Apparently brake fluid eats normal paint?) I figured why not try it out, which is why the bracket is black in the photo. I painted the clips as well, just for the heck of it.
 
For the new and uneducated, how would one know if the master brake cylinder had been replaced by the previous owner?
 
If you are looking for more options for brake pads, RX-7 rear pads fit our calipers. For track use Hawk Blue work great.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top