X1/9 style/design custom modifications

I question the value of the diffuser, especially at the speeds a hill climb car achieves.
The airflow over / under an x draws air from under up through the engine bay and out the engine lid.
I've always had the impression that aerodynamics isn't a simple straightforward thing, but a rather complex science that does not necessarily follow common logic or simple thinking. Unfortunately I don't have any particular knowledge of it myself. Your second post is a perfect example; I agree, my suggestion of adding a air scoop to the roof to direct cool air into the engine bay may be completely wrong. I think without a windtunnel or lots of testing with various scientific methods it would be almost impossible to know if something is actually a benefit or not. I suppose for a street car it may not matter too much. As you say, at lower speeds most aero effects are very minimal. Frankly a lot of it is more for looks on street cars, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if that's what the owner likes.

Regarding the question of engine bay air traveling from the bottom up or top down. That is something I keep debating in my mind, at least for one of my cars that I am assembling a turbo package on. I got the largest intercooler that I could fit without making the connecting pipes any longer than necessary. The layout came out even better than I expected overall, with it laying flat (horizontal to the ground) just above the area between the trans/firewall/engine/strut tower, sort of where the coolant overflow used to sit. But like everything there are still compromises. The IC ended up just a tad too big to fit under the stock engine lid. So I've decided to replace the lid with a custom mesh one that is a little taller so it clears the IC. Hopefully that also allows hot engine bay air to escape more. But on the other hand, I am also adding a electric fan to the IC to increase its efficiency (vital for a turbo in a restrictive engine bay like these). The oil cooler is mounted under the IC to also get air flow from the fan. So do I wire the fan to push air upward or downward? I know the first thought is to go up along with what we assume the normal airflow to be. But that is moving hot air (from the engine bay) across the IC, significantly decreasing its efficiency. By going downward it not only pushes cool air across the IC and oil cooler, but also moves cooler air into the bay in general (it is a very powerful Spal fan that moves a LOT of air). That air is then being directed rearward, where the rear panels have been opened up to allow the hot engine bay to vent out the back of the car (the taillight panel is also open with a mesh grill). Another consideration for this is the fact the car's ride height is very low and there is a large air dam on the nose, so less air is moving under the car overall. That means less air moving upward through the bay from below. Especially when combined with the open mesh lid above. Going from the top downward was part of my thinking with a roof scoop to direct airflow to the bay from above, at least in this example if I run the fan flowing downward.
So which way will work better overall, up or down? Honestly I won't know until I finish it and can try to get a few temp measurements at various spots. Fortunately is will be easy to reverse the fan's direction to experiment with this.
 
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Hi Gene:

The airflow diagrams and photos I have seen show that the low pressure area behind the targa "pulls" the air up out of the engine bay.

Thanks,
Kevin

That means that the air under the car is higher pressure or there wouldn't be any flow.
I think that's what the purpose of the diffuser is, it moves the air and lowers the pressure under the car.
Until the car disturbs the air it's basically sitting still, not flowing. What we are trying to do is accelerate it to create lower pressure (at least under the car).
 
In the example I described, with a very low ride height and a large front air dam. Adding a diffuser to the rear, along with those two things, would further reduce the airflow from under the car up through the engine bay. Assuming a diffuser, or a air dam, or a lowered floor height, all work as we think they do - aerodynamically.
 
In the example I described, with a very low ride height and a large front air dam. Adding a diffuser to the rear, along with those two things, would further reduce the airflow from under the car up through the engine bay. Assuming a diffuser, or a air dam, or a lowered floor height, all work as we think they do - aerodynamically.

Jeff, I'm on a ladder scraping/painting my house and I didn't get to read your previous post yet, but to complete your aero package you should add a cover under the engine bay that stops airflow to the engine and directs it to the diffuser.
 
Thanks. To be completely honest I am not necessarily trying to make a aero package per see. I would like to benefit the movement of cool air to the intercooler/oil cooler and through the engine bay as much as possible. That would be my first priority in this 'aero' respect. Anything beyond that with air dams, diffusers, etc are mainly cosmetic frankly, for the "look". I'm one of those that builds street customs for style, more than race cars for functionality. But I do want to assist vital functions (like engine cooling in the case of the X) in the process. So I guess mechanical reliability would be my other high priority. It's my belief that for the most part typical street cruisers do not really benefit much from aero improvements. At least not from a performance perspective. Cooling air flow is a different matter.
 
That means that the air under the car is higher pressure or there wouldn't be any flow.
I think that's what the purpose of the diffuser is, it moves the air and lowers the pressure under the car.
Until the car disturbs the air it's basically sitting still, not flowing. What we are trying to do is accelerate it to create lower pressure (at least under the car).

But wouldn't this be a detriment to engine cooling?
 
But wouldn't this be a detriment to engine cooling?
Yes. Unless of course another air path is provided that allows as much or more air to the engine bay. Everything is always a trade off. That is why I build street cars for the street and race cars for the track. Each has different requirements and therefore different build specs. But for purely cosmetic reasons I will make some compromises to blur that line (street vs track), hopefully not to the point of causing a significant detriment in its intended function.
 
If you had the full "under" aero package (splitter/nozzle to accelerate the air going under the car, pan under the engine/trans area, diffuser, side skirts, spoiler or wing operating with the diffuser) then I think it would be beneficial to modify the engine side intakes so that they could be in a higher pressure area sending cooling air to the engine and exiting upward partially fixing the undesirable low pressure area behind the cabin.
This has already been done somewhere.
 
I think it would be beneficial to improve the side scoops intake regardless of other mods. To me any improvements that can be made to engine bay air flow are worth doing.
 
My dads a pretty smart guy about this stuff as he has done everything from drag cars to bonneville record setting top speed builds.

He said the side scoops are the best option, mKing then bigger if possible and allowing lots of openings for the air to move around. Obviously difficult if the rear trunk is kept in tact.

Under and over are less effective and mess with downforce.
 
Especially without access to a wind tunnel to develop a full "proper" aero package, I'd certainly agree with Kurt's dad. Particularly for a street car. I think cooling is more important than down force on the street.
 
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I think it was Rachael that discussed this on one of her builds. Apparently the actual Dallara car has a modified wheelbase and bodywork to match. If I'm not mistaken some of the aftermarket Dallara style kits have modified the rear fenders to correct that for use on a stock X shell.

I noticed in your picture you added a air scoop to the roof. I assume that is for interior ventilation/cooling?
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But a similar scoop located on the roof might be made to duct air toward the engine bay. Maybe a larger one like this.
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Here is my version. I went much simpler, but spent a crap-ton of time reshaping the overall shape.
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spent a crap-ton of time reshaping the overall shape
Nice mods.
By 'reshaping', are you referring to the rear corners of the top? Is that to aid in venting the air from inside the cabin, or for overall aerodynamics, or for style, or ??
 
Reshaping was strictly style. I remember seeing a one of those plexi-tops back in the 80's, and the trailing edge followed the "slant" of the rear of the targa. I thought that was a cool design, accentuating the car's lines instead of looking like a 914 afterthought. So, I modded mine like that. This is the original top, and the little fairing overhang at the back is original top material (no add-ons). The shape on the rear sides are simply to add some lines to an otherwise dull shape. All the venting is done with the aircraft pop-outs up front.
 
I happened upon some pictures of the "other" X1/9 (Triumph TR7) in race trim from the 80's. The body kit on it might be a great design for the X, to create a track car or even just the 'look' of one. I can see the same style of front air dam, fender flares, rear spoiler, possibly even the roof deflector on a X for a 80's period race car. With the body shape being similar to the X, this TR7 makes it easy to see how this style of components would fit the X's form:

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Kurt, you'll get the hang of Carl's humor after awhile - if you can put up with him that long. I guess even more so for me though.
 
There are many "characters" on this forum. Of course, I am not one of them. Yes, I was joking about the side exit exhausts on the Group 44 TR8.
 
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