<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Year 2000 projects....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000 at 5:16 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("David Ius"); // --> </SCRIPT>David Ius <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->What's going on at the moment? We've all been talking about Herzel's big project, I open the X1/9 Club UK newsletter and "Graham Lewis" is talking about project X1/2000!!!
The concept seems vaguely similar, but what the... arrrrrggggghhhhh --- the proposed body doesn't look like an X!!!
Herzel, your talking about a 2000 X1/9 that LOOKS like an X1/9 aren't you?
Isn't all this X1/9 interest great, though!? We're certainly not spoilt for things to talk about!
Cheers
David<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->yes - odd coincidences?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000, 11:44 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->It would seem that X1/9 enthusiasts all over the world are thinking about something like this. Whether it be for fun, for self-assembly (like some kind of a kit car), or for trying to provoke the original makers of the X to sit up & take note, there are many similar ideas like this lately.
I too have been noodling with my own visualization of what a "new X1/9" would look like for quite some time. I have so far shared my thoughts on it with no one, but perhaps I will one day sit down & sketch it out...
So we have Herzel & the International contributors building a carbon-fiber tube chassis 2000 X1/9, we have Graham Lewis' sketch interpretation (yes I saw it too in the UKX mag, I like it, but not because it looks like an X [it has a styling hint but is just too different for my taste] or because I find it a natural evolution of the design [It's neat but a very big departure] but because I just like the idea that folks are thinking about this & expressing it!), and actually we were all making a joke in here not too long ago about Bertone still selling new X1/9s in the year 2000. It was only a joke in that instance, but I would really like to see it happen (of course I am going to say that!)
Yeah, for me it all started bubbling when I had a dream one night that I was in some nondescript foreign country at a FIAT dealership. It was the middle of the night & they were closed for the night, I was the only person around, and saw there a "New X1/9" parked under dim, buzzing fluorescent parking lot lights
It was a cool dream & before it morphed into something else - like me fly-fishing in licorice hip-boots & snowshoes - I had a very lucid & extensive opportunity to walk all around the 'New X1/9', look inside & get at least one good glance at nearly everything about it. It was a pretty cool & vivid dream, at the least, it got me thinking about the idea of all these reborn 'classics' on the market these days. New Beetle, New Thunderbird, New MG, New Mini (!!!), even New '50s Cunningham race cars, and many others. It is a phenomenon that just seems to be spreading throughout most of the world's automakers these days.
And although I think it would be incredibly hard to believe that Fiat, Bertone, or anybody else for that matter, is ever going to start mass-producing a "modernized" X1/9, it is obviously a fun idea to think about for those of us who really like the X.
I wish I could just draw the car I saw in the dream, because it was really cool: a tasteful and elegant evolution of the original design, no drastic departures, all the 'classic' cues of an X1/9 present & intact, just an ever-so-slightly wider & lower chassis, and a bit of a bulge to the body down the sides, not fat looking but rather a 'cut' physique, very aggressive looking, but NOT the victim of so many "evolved design" changes like drastic cluster headlights that so many modern car company's designers are prone to add.
The car would simply have to still use pop-ups that were at least cosmetically reminiscent of the original X in my personal opinion. It would have to have a targa bar, it would have to have a mid-engine, it would have to be a low-slung wedge of a car!! These are the design cues that make an X1/9 what it is... to me
Peace, -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z"; document.write("ian lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>ian lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Reborn "classics"!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000, 2:37 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac wrote '......it is a phenomenon that just seems to be spreading throughout most of the world's automakers these days'.
Mac, I really think this is because the automakers have suddenly woken up (it has taken them 10 years to do so) to the fact that new car buyers have become bored with the universal jelly-bean styling that most auto manufacturers have forced down the throat of the market over recent years. Cars have become so 'idiot-proof' that any feeling of buyer-individualism has gone out the door. The reason that 'real classic' car ownership (and interest from the public at classic car displays etc) has become so popular worldwide is that these cars have individualism, personality, call it what you like! How many times have you seen someone looking closely at your X when its been parked somewhere, and you can almost hear them thinking out loud ".....if only they built cars like that today"!!
Keep your dreams activated Mac, they might come true some day soon, mate. cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("Doc"); // --> </SCRIPT>Doc <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->So true...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000, 7:46 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->those of you who have seen my posts for a while know that I crave the odd and unusual when it comes to cars... but i have a rule - with the exception of my 1924 Model T, i have never paid more than $1,000 for any of the cars in my collection. it never ceases to amaze me that i draw a LOT of attention from the rather ratty (but improving daily) X that I paid $800 for.
i think the auto companies are realizing that people don't want to be brainwashed anymore (the success of the PT Cruiser is testimony of this).
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "-";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->What if......<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 14 2000, 4:39 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think it would be safe to say that when Bertone penned the original X1/9 he got it pretty much spot on. There have been a few VERY good body-mods over the years, but they all play on the same theme - wider wheel arches and a lower stance. Ultimately though - the car remains the same beast and instantly recognisable. If anyone were to redesign the bodywork I think much of the effort would be wasted. In terms of styling, the X1/9 isn't so far away from the modern design ethos in appearance - bold strong lines with hard straight lines and soft curves. Certainly there would be some alterations to accomodate modern engineering practice and improved aerodynamics - and of course the obligatory safety requirements. You can be sure that the bodywork would be a composite material and the chassis substantially lighter. The rollbar would have to remain, but I would hope that it would actually include the real thing rather than just reinforced, corrugated steel. The engine would most likely be of the latest generation of the Fiat 5 cylinder block (probably with or without turbo as an option) giving all the torque and power you could possibly ask for.
Toyota have illustrated what a modern X1/9 should perform like (if you get the chance to drive the mkIII MR2 then I strongly recommend you grab the opportunity by the neck and don't let go), they also showed us what the original X1/9 would look like with the essential aerodynamic extras when the MkI MR2 was released. The irony here is that the product already exists to an extent. Lotus have developed the M250 concept car to the point where it is ready for the road and it is so tantalisingly close to what a modern X1/9 should be that it really is scary. On the downside it also illustrates just how expensive such a product would be ($50k at a guess).<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Lotus M250<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 14 2000, 1:49 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Looks much more like a modernised Lancia Stratos than an evolution of an X1/9. I do agree with you though on most points you have made. I personally think the car would have to look more similar to the original X, at least in terms of being more "wedgey" than "swoopey" in a cosmetic sense -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Carl"); // --> </SCRIPT>Carl <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Opel<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 14 2000, 8:45 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->In a recent Motor Trend, there was an Opel roadster that had a targa top that "will not make it to our shores", that they said resembled the Lotus, but in my eyes, it looked more likt the evolution of the X than the Lotus did. The lotus has some resemblance to the X, in about the same way a Delorean resembles a Scorpion, you see the resemblence, but on closer inspection, it really is different. With the Opel, at least to me, I was thinking 'an X with rounded corners, hmmm...'<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "-";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Irony<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 16 2000, 2:47 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The real irony of this is that the Opel you mentioned just happens to have been designed by Lotus, based on the Elise chassis.
The Opel is hard to describe as a beautiful car though (same as the Elise isn't much of a looker either) - besides I wasn't comparing appearance, I was referring to the technology and components. Lotus (and Toyota) has shown that it is possible to build a cheap mid-engined car that performs well and doesn't cost too much, but at a price - namely that of convenience. The current trend is cut all the non-essentials out, like luggage space. One of the great benefits of the X has always been the fact that it actually has some luggage capacity, in fact it isn't far off that of a small saloon (ignoring the loss of back seat of course)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Carl"); // --> </SCRIPT>Carl <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->But..<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 16 2000, 6:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The Opel, while being based on the Elise, still in my eyes, had more of an X look to it. But you are right, though not as beautiful as an X, they are cheaper than some current "sports" cars by sacrificing space. The biggest cheaters of space are the new MR2 spyder, and the Honda S2000. But that is okay with me. People who do not remember the X when it was new still say to me, 'Wow!, how did you afford such a cool new car?'. I love the looks on their faces when I say that it is 23 years old. Priceless. And now, hopefully, I am on my way to getting it closer to 2000 performance numbers.
1977 X1/9 10" Sub thumping down the road.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000 at 5:16 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("David Ius"); // --> </SCRIPT>David Ius <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->What's going on at the moment? We've all been talking about Herzel's big project, I open the X1/9 Club UK newsletter and "Graham Lewis" is talking about project X1/2000!!!
The concept seems vaguely similar, but what the... arrrrrggggghhhhh --- the proposed body doesn't look like an X!!!
Herzel, your talking about a 2000 X1/9 that LOOKS like an X1/9 aren't you?
Isn't all this X1/9 interest great, though!? We're certainly not spoilt for things to talk about!
Cheers
David<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->yes - odd coincidences?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000, 11:44 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->It would seem that X1/9 enthusiasts all over the world are thinking about something like this. Whether it be for fun, for self-assembly (like some kind of a kit car), or for trying to provoke the original makers of the X to sit up & take note, there are many similar ideas like this lately.
I too have been noodling with my own visualization of what a "new X1/9" would look like for quite some time. I have so far shared my thoughts on it with no one, but perhaps I will one day sit down & sketch it out...
So we have Herzel & the International contributors building a carbon-fiber tube chassis 2000 X1/9, we have Graham Lewis' sketch interpretation (yes I saw it too in the UKX mag, I like it, but not because it looks like an X [it has a styling hint but is just too different for my taste] or because I find it a natural evolution of the design [It's neat but a very big departure] but because I just like the idea that folks are thinking about this & expressing it!), and actually we were all making a joke in here not too long ago about Bertone still selling new X1/9s in the year 2000. It was only a joke in that instance, but I would really like to see it happen (of course I am going to say that!)
Yeah, for me it all started bubbling when I had a dream one night that I was in some nondescript foreign country at a FIAT dealership. It was the middle of the night & they were closed for the night, I was the only person around, and saw there a "New X1/9" parked under dim, buzzing fluorescent parking lot lights
It was a cool dream & before it morphed into something else - like me fly-fishing in licorice hip-boots & snowshoes - I had a very lucid & extensive opportunity to walk all around the 'New X1/9', look inside & get at least one good glance at nearly everything about it. It was a pretty cool & vivid dream, at the least, it got me thinking about the idea of all these reborn 'classics' on the market these days. New Beetle, New Thunderbird, New MG, New Mini (!!!), even New '50s Cunningham race cars, and many others. It is a phenomenon that just seems to be spreading throughout most of the world's automakers these days.
And although I think it would be incredibly hard to believe that Fiat, Bertone, or anybody else for that matter, is ever going to start mass-producing a "modernized" X1/9, it is obviously a fun idea to think about for those of us who really like the X.
I wish I could just draw the car I saw in the dream, because it was really cool: a tasteful and elegant evolution of the original design, no drastic departures, all the 'classic' cues of an X1/9 present & intact, just an ever-so-slightly wider & lower chassis, and a bit of a bulge to the body down the sides, not fat looking but rather a 'cut' physique, very aggressive looking, but NOT the victim of so many "evolved design" changes like drastic cluster headlights that so many modern car company's designers are prone to add.
The car would simply have to still use pop-ups that were at least cosmetically reminiscent of the original X in my personal opinion. It would have to have a targa bar, it would have to have a mid-engine, it would have to be a low-slung wedge of a car!! These are the design cues that make an X1/9 what it is... to me
Peace, -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Reborn "classics"!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000, 2:37 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac wrote '......it is a phenomenon that just seems to be spreading throughout most of the world's automakers these days'.
Mac, I really think this is because the automakers have suddenly woken up (it has taken them 10 years to do so) to the fact that new car buyers have become bored with the universal jelly-bean styling that most auto manufacturers have forced down the throat of the market over recent years. Cars have become so 'idiot-proof' that any feeling of buyer-individualism has gone out the door. The reason that 'real classic' car ownership (and interest from the public at classic car displays etc) has become so popular worldwide is that these cars have individualism, personality, call it what you like! How many times have you seen someone looking closely at your X when its been parked somewhere, and you can almost hear them thinking out loud ".....if only they built cars like that today"!!
Keep your dreams activated Mac, they might come true some day soon, mate. cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->So true...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 13 2000, 7:46 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->those of you who have seen my posts for a while know that I crave the odd and unusual when it comes to cars... but i have a rule - with the exception of my 1924 Model T, i have never paid more than $1,000 for any of the cars in my collection. it never ceases to amaze me that i draw a LOT of attention from the rather ratty (but improving daily) X that I paid $800 for.
i think the auto companies are realizing that people don't want to be brainwashed anymore (the success of the PT Cruiser is testimony of this).
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->What if......<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 14 2000, 4:39 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think it would be safe to say that when Bertone penned the original X1/9 he got it pretty much spot on. There have been a few VERY good body-mods over the years, but they all play on the same theme - wider wheel arches and a lower stance. Ultimately though - the car remains the same beast and instantly recognisable. If anyone were to redesign the bodywork I think much of the effort would be wasted. In terms of styling, the X1/9 isn't so far away from the modern design ethos in appearance - bold strong lines with hard straight lines and soft curves. Certainly there would be some alterations to accomodate modern engineering practice and improved aerodynamics - and of course the obligatory safety requirements. You can be sure that the bodywork would be a composite material and the chassis substantially lighter. The rollbar would have to remain, but I would hope that it would actually include the real thing rather than just reinforced, corrugated steel. The engine would most likely be of the latest generation of the Fiat 5 cylinder block (probably with or without turbo as an option) giving all the torque and power you could possibly ask for.
Toyota have illustrated what a modern X1/9 should perform like (if you get the chance to drive the mkIII MR2 then I strongly recommend you grab the opportunity by the neck and don't let go), they also showed us what the original X1/9 would look like with the essential aerodynamic extras when the MkI MR2 was released. The irony here is that the product already exists to an extent. Lotus have developed the M250 concept car to the point where it is ready for the road and it is so tantalisingly close to what a modern X1/9 should be that it really is scary. On the downside it also illustrates just how expensive such a product would be ($50k at a guess).<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Lotus M250<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 14 2000, 1:49 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Looks much more like a modernised Lancia Stratos than an evolution of an X1/9. I do agree with you though on most points you have made. I personally think the car would have to look more similar to the original X, at least in terms of being more "wedgey" than "swoopey" in a cosmetic sense -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Opel<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 14 2000, 8:45 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->In a recent Motor Trend, there was an Opel roadster that had a targa top that "will not make it to our shores", that they said resembled the Lotus, but in my eyes, it looked more likt the evolution of the X than the Lotus did. The lotus has some resemblance to the X, in about the same way a Delorean resembles a Scorpion, you see the resemblence, but on closer inspection, it really is different. With the Opel, at least to me, I was thinking 'an X with rounded corners, hmmm...'<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Irony<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 16 2000, 2:47 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The real irony of this is that the Opel you mentioned just happens to have been designed by Lotus, based on the Elise chassis.
The Opel is hard to describe as a beautiful car though (same as the Elise isn't much of a looker either) - besides I wasn't comparing appearance, I was referring to the technology and components. Lotus (and Toyota) has shown that it is possible to build a cheap mid-engined car that performs well and doesn't cost too much, but at a price - namely that of convenience. The current trend is cut all the non-essentials out, like luggage space. One of the great benefits of the X has always been the fact that it actually has some luggage capacity, in fact it isn't far off that of a small saloon (ignoring the loss of back seat of course)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->But..<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 16 2000, 6:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The Opel, while being based on the Elise, still in my eyes, had more of an X look to it. But you are right, though not as beautiful as an X, they are cheaper than some current "sports" cars by sacrificing space. The biggest cheaters of space are the new MR2 spyder, and the Honda S2000. But that is okay with me. People who do not remember the X when it was new still say to me, 'Wow!, how did you afford such a cool new car?'. I love the looks on their faces when I say that it is 23 years old. Priceless. And now, hopefully, I am on my way to getting it closer to 2000 performance numbers.
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