Yugo 5-speed on 190mm clutch from X1/9 1500 ?

Ulix

True Classic
Hi,
My 128 will receive a mild 1900cc engine.
Single carb, stockish exhaust.
It won‘t make big hp, but lots of torque.
So I would like to use the bigger clutch.

I have a Yugo 5-speed but just read on the Midwest site that the Yugo 5-speed takes the tall 4-speed clutch, same as very early X1/9 and 128.
Any experience out there if the trans can be used with a 190mm flywheel and clutch?
 
What's the stock size? How much larger is 190mm? Is it enough to make any real difference? You're probably better off just getting an uprated standard size clutch with heavier springs...
P.S.
I guess now I'll have to build that 2 litre just to keep up.😁
 
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180mm is the std. size.
190mm was used on X1/9 1.5 and later FWD variants.
The clutch will be uprated, my buddy has connections through hie work to get that done.
Yes, I want to learn more about that 2L, so go ahead! 😁
 
Not a direct answer to your question, but many years ago when I was building old air-cooled VWs it was common to go to a later, larger flywheel and clutch. Typically the bell-housing area needed to be ground out all the way around to clear the larger flywheel (usually a 10mm increase). Looking back it was a lot of work and in some cases resulted in a weaker trans case that cracked. So I'd be inclined to go with @Lowtechprime and say keep the stock size with upgraded components.
 
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Adding just 10mm in diameter doesn't sound like a great improvement in clamping force or torque handling... Plus you throw in the extra weight of a larger flywheel, plus even if it fits you'll also need a different starter and make that work.... Sounds like a bunch of headaches without much benefit. Plus you said 'mild' 1900... Do you even need more than standard torque handling?
 
Ritmo / Regata (probabaly even delta) all pre 1986 (bottom change) 85 S models will have a five speed trans, tripode inner joint, 190mm clutch and a five speed style starter motor mount (with the locating dowel), just what you need for a 128 5 speed conversion. You will need the Yugo sway bar to clear the trans casing on the LHS and a pair of the slighty larger tripode joints, and also deal with the different transmission bellhousing lower mounting points.

The yugo trans uses the same 128 inner tripode, same 128 lower mount but uses the 4 speed 180mm clutch and 4 speed type starter motor

SteveC
 
but to answer your question of "can it be done" ... yes

take a 5 speed flywheel that fits the 190mm clutch, press the ring gear off it and fit a four speed ring gear, then the four speed starter motor will fit and you can use the four speed style bellhousing of the yugo trans.

SteveC
 
Steve,
perfect answer, thank you.
I do have the Yugo trans, have just verified that it takes the 4speed starter and the small tripodes.

I think a uprated 180mm clutch would be best.
Last question: what is the deal again with the "tall clutch" used on early X1/9s and 128s?
What does this depend on, or how do I get away from that needing it?
Does the clutch have to match the flyhweel or does it have something to do with the bellhousing?

I.e., can I change over to a later 4speed flywheel and use the "normal" 180mm clutch?
 
Ritmo / Regata (probabaly even delta) all pre 1986 (bottom change) 85 S models will have a five speed trans, tripode inner joint, 190mm clutch and a five speed style starter motor mount (with the locating dowel), just what you need for a 128 5 speed conversion. You will need the Yugo sway bar to clear the trans casing on the LHS and a pair of the slighty larger tripode joints, and also deal with the different transmission bellhousing lower mounting points.

The yugo trans uses the same 128 inner tripode, same 128 lower mount but uses the 4 speed 180mm clutch and 4 speed type starter motor

SteveC
Hey Steve! I have a Regata 5 speed in my 128... Mine used the 180mm flywheel and the short clutch, four speed style starter( no dowel, 3 bolts) It did have tripodes, but yes they are larger than the 128 4 speed ones and they needed slight mods to fit on the axels...
 
Hey Steve! I have a Regata 5 speed in my 128... Mine used the 180mm flywheel and the short clutch, four speed style starter( no dowel, 3 bolts) It did have tripodes, but yes they are larger than the 128 4 speed ones and they needed slight mods to fit on the axels...
That will be from a regata / ritmo 75 (or 65), which is a 1300 model if it uses the 180mm clutch, the 85 / 85S regata / ritmo is a 1500 engine and uses the 190mm clutch / 5 speed type starter.

65 trans will be 3.76:1 only according to my rtimo ser 1 65s owner's manual, whereas the 85 trans can come with either a 4.077:1 or a 3.59:1 final drive.



SteveC
 
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Steve,
perfect answer, thank you.
I do have the Yugo trans, have just verified that it takes the 4speed starter and the small tripodes.

I think a uprated 180mm clutch would be best.
Last question: what is the deal again with the "tall clutch" used on early X1/9s and 128s?
What does this depend on, or how do I get away from that needing it?
Does the clutch have to match the flyhweel or does it have something to do with the bellhousing?

I.e., can I change over to a later 4speed flywheel and use the "normal" 180mm clutch?
tall / low clutch cover is to do with the design of the bellhousing. Early (tall) has a fitted steel core plug covering the secondary shafts bearing position in the bellhousing, later has this core plug deleted and the hole is cast over - requiring the use of a lower clutch cover.

The yugo trans will have the cast over cover type of bellhousing, so will only fit a low cover, a tall one would foul the bellhousing.

the lower final drive gearing of the yugo trans with a 4.077:1 final drive won't really suit the torque of a larger engine, which would suit a 3.76 or 3.59 final drive much better

SteveC
 
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You guys keep talking about a 5 speed yugo transmission. Were there also 4 speed yugo transmissions?

I have one transmission I marked "yugo" quite some years ago. I just assumed it was a 4 speed and had the 3.76 gears. How would I be able to tell from outside if I have a 4 or 5 speed. I know for absolutely certain all my other transmissions are 4 speed. They're Fiat, likely all from 128sl coupes.

Edit: temporary brain fade. I now recall there were 1100, 4 speed yugos.
 
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Great info on the core plug vs. cast over cover.
But the short/tall clutch has to be matched to the correct short/tall flywheel?

I have two of these transmissions, they were imported from Serbia.
The have the steel core plug and I determined both to have the 3.76 gears in them.
This is great, but I am running short 175/50-13 tires which just offsets the change from 4.08 with 185/60 tires.
So the 3.59 (that I am running in the X1/9 now with 185/60) would be the better choice for the 128 as well.
 

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Great info on the core plug vs. cast over cover.
But the short/tall clutch has to be matched to the correct short/tall flywheel?

I have two of these transmissions, they were imported from Serbia.
The have the steel core plug and I determined both to have the 3.76 gears in them.
This is great, but I am running short 175/50-13 tires which just offsets the change from 4.08 with 185/60 tires.
So the 3.59 (that I am running in the X1/9 now with 185/60) would be the better choice for the 128 as well.
Hey, just so you know (and I haven't confirmed), but according to Steve's info I likely have the 3.76 ratio and also 175/50 13 tires, and it has been fine. 5th gear in the 80's is somewhere in the 3000's so a very comfortable cruise. If the ratio were much lower I think I would be giving up too much low end acceleration...
 
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IMG_20201004_180433387~2.jpg
This is the label that was on that trans... I couldn't find this number in any references, but maybe someone else recognizes?
 
As far as I know C506 is the gearbox type. X1/9, Ritmo/Strada and Uno Turbo 1.3l (Mk1) 5 speed boxes. Probably also Yugo then? The Fiat models above have the same flywheel but the starter gearing differs on the UT flywheel.
 
It came NOS (0 miles!) out of Argentina, a Regata 5 speed. I'm just not sure which Regata.... I used my 1300 128 flywheel and starter...
 
It came NOS (0 miles!) out of Argentina, a Regata 5 speed. I'm just not sure which Regata.... I used my 1300 128 flywheel and starter...
Yes, Regata is basically a Ritmo with a trunk. Did you use a 1300 clutch as well?
I will eventually go the opposite way with my 128SL; 1500 Regata engine and 128 4 speed trans. By keeping the 1300 flywheel, starter and clutch this seems to be doable.
 
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