Clutch Lever Positioning Pic Needed

lookforjoe

lookforjoe

True Classic
My clutch has been acting up - the push rod became loose in the slave. I had to remove the spring loaded "give" built into the end of the rod to push the rod back into the slave to remove the excess play & gain enough leverage to operate the clutch.

Rod prior to trans installation

CFE5AFEE-879A-446F-9D77-1D092D9CE3D8_zpsbgewoynt.jpg


Lever set so that it is touching T/O bearing

944D3A7B-9592-418F-A6B7-C8EB752399A1_zps2102dd55.jpg


So, before I change the slave, does anyone have a reference pic that indicates whether my lever (as shown above) is in the appropriate position (relative to bell housing seam, perhaps?) for normal operation?

I just don't see how the slave could have created the excess clearance for the rod.
 
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Lever position

Hussein,
Maybe the picture could help.
There is the lever position clutch/transmission operation, is working without flaw in Kermit.

L1TW86R.jpg


Yves
 
Thanks Yves!

Putting yours & mine together, allowing for shift in camera angle, they seem close. I'll go forward with the slave replacement.

L1TW86R_zps4930c39a.jpg


944D3A7B-9592-418F-A6B7-C8EB752399A1_zps2102dd55.jpg
 
Hussein... Study the photos a bit closer...

Note on YOURS the "C" cup is expanded a bit more than Yves indicating yours has had a hard life.

Not much though,,, and should be able to compensate for it with the adjustment. Just saying... I see a difference there.
 
Black-Tooth said:
Note on YOURS the "C" cup is expanded a bit more than Yves indicating yours has had a hard life.

Not much though,,, and should be able to compensate for it with the adjustment. Just saying... I see a difference there.
Click to expand...

Not sure if that's the cup, or the damping block wear ("D") shape piece.

My car does have 130K. The lever may also be inset slightly compared to Yves, but clutch wear with also effect the PP finger offset - my clutch has about 15K on it - the thinner the disc, the more the fingers of the PP will push back outward towards the T/O, if I have it figured correctly.

My main concern was whether it was close to stock orientation. Still unclear how the slave seat could have moved. I can easily push the slave piston back into the cylinder, so perhaps it's bleeding past the seal - I don't recall being able to push the piston in so easily before.
 
Regardless Hussein, the adjuster can make up...

the difference.

If I was blindfolded, I'd change out the slave.

If it proves NOT to be the problem... you have a good spare as it will go bad eventually.

(BTW... I have 173K on mine and I seen no difference or wear in the C-cup or the D-thingie... Just sayin'... Your D-thingie looks OK, your C-cup is expanded a bit from "normal".)
 
Changed the Slave & hose. Bleed it manually at first & then had the Mrs. help. Clear fluid coming through, no bubbles. Minor seepage evident from the old slave inside the boot.

9F463DF7-620A-464C-B6C2-5D28F4B211E9_zpsi6chmnpc.jpg


Clutch is still flaky. Grabs right off the floor, unless I stroke it, so I have to assume I have a problem with the master as well. Pedal lever travel is a tad under 7", which is to spec (6.7" I think it listed in the manual)

I'll have to see if I can close up the "C" a touch

525DF48C-A14F-4909-95C1-E34FA21BC93C_zpsjdvwjqwx.jpg
 
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If it's any comfort

mine does the same thing ["I had to remove the spring loaded "give" built into the end of the rod to push the rod back into the slave to remove the excess play & gain enough leverage to operate the clutch."] ever since I replaced the slave a couple of years ago. Some of my pedal travel is used up just getting the piston to the rod before action starts. I thought it did not do that before, but I chalked it up to bad memory.
It will be interesting to see what you determine.
 
The amount of piston travel in the clutch slave-master is mostly fixed. The threaded rod on the clutch slave alters one side of the effective triangle lengthening the effective travel of the clutch slave piston driving the clutch arm. If moving the adjuster threaded rod out that far does not resolve the clutch pedal engagement location, the clutch master is likely the problem.

What often happens to the clutch master, due to the constant piston to cylinder movement in the same area, it wears out or pits develop in the cylinder walls causing internal leaking. This results in a different clutch engagement location at the clutch pedal. Moving the adjuster rod at the slave alters the master cylinder's piston location. It may or many not work.

An extreme example would be the clutch slave pulled from the 74' which had a whizz lock nut jammed into the slave cylinder's piston to gain more effective length. This was the PO's way to compensating for a wore out clutch master cylinder.. it almost worked much to my amazement.


Bernice
 
This makes sense - since the problem developed AFTER I readjusted my pedal travel - I adjusted the pedal stop/buffer to drop the pedal perfectly level with the brake pedal.

Shortly thereafter, in hindsight, the problem began. In adjusting the pedal throw I moved the piston travel into an area that was probably crudded/whatever within the MC, which must have affected the piston/wall seal in the MC.

Not looking forward to the job. It'll have to wait now for warmer/ dry weather to return.
 
One last thing if the Wife is still home...

Have her push the clutch to the floor as you WATCH and observe the INITIAL movement and compare it to SUBSEQUENT movements.

I agree that it appears the Master would be the problem... but I think I would first BLEED it again and then add a bit more shaft "length" with the clutch adjusting rod to see if you can get the consistency you want and should expect.

(Hopefully you bled the Banjo Bolt first and then the Bleeder on the slave... and have a good 1 1/4 inch worth of throw...)
 
Sounds plausible but

in my case it started after I replaced the clutch master and slave. And yes, there has been plenty of bleeding done since that time. So I would want to believe that the problem lies elsewhere than the clutch master cylinder. Although we have all heard or experienced problems with new masters. Still, it is down on the list of potential trouble spots in my speculations.
 
Wishin' and hopin'... as I found a drip under the...

wife's 2003 Honda Pilot...

It got worse after a few days... and it wasn't nothing that I could see other than coming outta the area where the engine meets the auto 5-speed trans.

$1568 bucks to replace a $20 dollar crank seal... dropping the trans and supporting the engine.

That's why I'd like to place his Brake Master on the BOTTOM of my list too... and also why I suggested trying everything else again as well!

Happy Thanksgiving to all anyway!
 
Turns out the new slave was leaking/bleeding past the inner seal - I had it apart last week to replace the half moon & found fluid behind the boot.

Bayless sent me a warranty replacement, and that went in today - feels much better!

I used the rod that was provided this time, instead of the original. Doesn't make any difference in terms of offset, though.
 
jvandyke said:
was the one that went bad NOS or "modern" one? bummer the "new" stuff stinks
Click to expand...

Aluminum body, so I presume not OEM/NOS.

9F463DF7-620A-464C-B6C2-5D28F4B211E9_zpsi6chmnpc.jpg


What I noticed also is that the rod has to be adjusted so the damper spring is fully compressed, or the outer seal on the piston rides out beyond the lip of the housing (!). That is with either new rod that comes with the slave, or with the original rod. So, I adjusted the rod the same, so that the piston does not come out past the lip of the housing.
 
Perhaps going back to the old way of having the spring pulling the throw out arm towards the slave cylinder might be better. All the little holes are there to make it happen.
 
Interesting result

<What I noticed also is that the rod has to be adjusted so the damper spring is fully compressed> I noticed that too, but figured something else was out of spec, adjusted so the spring is not compressed, and lived with it. So, do we know what the spring is suppose to do originally when it is in the uncompressed state and whether the system does something we don't want it to do when compressed?
 
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