Project cooling, continued

Nice option for UK/EU.

Cost to ship safely to USA would be prohibitive - it would end up being a $500 Rad, at least.
 
ALSO

In reply to the post asking for an electric under-hood cooler: My 86 came with one stock. It kicks on and blows on the intake manifold to prevent vapor lock. You could modify it with a bigger fan or something like that!

You could also create a chin spoiler that mounts in front of the MUFFLER AREA to direct cool air from under the car up through the engine compartment, and keep the muffler's heat from entering.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never had any problems with overheating. Is the later cooling system different (better) in any way? The water pump for the 1500 is different, but is it better?
 
Where would you even begin

to fit such a monster? I looked into getting an electric pump replacement and came up empty, short of making up one (custom) myself. Didn't want to go down that road because there's not a whole lot of capacity to run a continuous running water pump. a lot of the energy produced by the stock alternator would be used up running the pump alone. Night time usage would be a disaster and I don't want to re-design the electrical system to solve a cooling problem. :blackeye:

So, for a couple amps intermittent duty, I've added this pump.
The fluid dynamics folks I work with here agree with TonyK and say this should work provided there is positive flow on the main tube.
I've run out of time to test this week but am hopeful for this coming weekend.
 
Masking a problem

Chris St-Louis said:
Nice work....

I think I might have missed something....Why? I have no problem with overheating on a hot day. Arent you masking a malfunction with this?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. Adding a fix to a poor circulation design, maybe...
I refurbished my entire engine and cooling system last summer, and the issue reared it's ugly head right away. As long as I'm moving and the engine RPM is above (say) 1500RPM's, then I'm OK.
My car has AC installed and working, so this does some 'blockage' (so to speak) of the air flow, but my primary issue is the coolant pump being 'not so efficient' at low RPM's. The coolant lines in an X are some 24 feet long when all things are considered, yet the pump is this dinky thing with an impeller of about 2" in diameter. Why'd they do that?

My goal is to give it some help and hopefully get a positive result. I know there are no guarantees, but if this DOES work, it may end up solving other's issues as well. It's at the very least worth the try...
 
Cooling.

If you have a stock car, timing to spec. you should not have problems with cooling with a clean rad, a water pump that is within tolerance and the system is bled of air.
But... change any of the above and you are into overheating problems of different magnatude depending on how much change has been made to the engine. Like Bob Brown has suggested, there isn't anymore electric power available under that hood, normal laws of physics need to be used to over come the short fall that the car's cooling system has.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
While I think think the general idea of increasing the coolant circulation is sound, I agree with Larry that having the pumps (stock+booster) in a series does not seem optimal. They probably should be parallell, with a check valve in series with the booster in order to provide the best flow.

boosterk.png


I suppose you plan to connect the booster pump to the radiator fan thermostat?

LarryC said:
But without running the numbers and hurting my brain, it’s hard to say. But my first reaction is that the water pump itself could be the limiting constriction in any attempt to enhance the system. You have got to force this new flow past that to accomplish the primary goal. But my second reaction is that the insertable mod is so well designed at this point that it is worth a try. Theory has come smack up against observation too many times in my past to say this will not work. I say it is worth a try. Could be the start of a whole new industry!
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Cooling Project Results -

The results are in, and the outcome is a pleasant one...
Today is the perfect day to test this, as it's in the high 80's here.

I finally got around to purging the car and wiring the remote fan switch to the front console.
I ran the car a few miles to warm it up, then sat in my driveway in the hot sun for about
30 minutes running at about 600 RPM. (first pic below).
15 minutes into it, I decided to put the AC on (MAX AC) and run the inside fans.

It didn't take long at all for the front radiator fan switch to kick on. (I'm running the lower temp switch)
Any of you folks that have 2 fans up front know they make quite a rumble when they're running.
The pump I put in runs virtually silent with respect to the fans.
I noticed the AC was blowing cold at first, but after 10 minutes it got a bit warmer because the condenser
wasn't getting enough air. Ha! But running the car around the block after this test got things cooled down again.

The end result: After 30 minutes, the needle read exactly at 190 Deg as shown below. (oil pressure is low
because RPM's are way down with hot engine.)

30minutesacon600rpmsm.jpg


Then I decided to rev up the engine to 2K RPM to see what would happen. After 1 minute, you can
see that the temp is actually COOLER. AC still on. (oil pressure looks a little better too... :rolleyes2: )

All the while, the radiator fans are cycling on/off. Mostly on though...

31minutesacon2krpmsm.jpg


So my conclusion at this stage is that the aux. pump I installed is a huge success, and from
the amount of work I put into it, I can now say it was worth it. I hope this inspires some
of you with the same cooling problem.

Building this assembly won't be easy for some. Copper works a lot easier. (cheaper too) The final
cost is about $175 with free labor. (DIY)

Still, I believe an improved radiator will likely yield the same result, but at least for now I can
continue to run my stock setup. :dance2:
 
STOCK... STOCK??? As I look at the CUSTOM...

... Dash and the DIGITAL readouts with the CUSTOM Oil Pressure Guage and the CUSTOM Guage Faces... all through the spokes of an AFTERMARKET Steering Wheel... and you dare utter the word STOCK?

If you should ever say the word "STOCK"... or forgive him Lord, ever say the word "ORIGINAL" again... with regards to this car... it would be nothing short of BLASPHEMY!

LED Lamps? Even I would let you get away with using those and still call it stock!

Geez!

(Have a great trip... keep in touch while yur on the road.)
 
See.

I told you, first it is LED Lamps then..... Sorry to say, one thing will lead to another, the word STOCK is lost and forgotten.

Joking aside, well done Bob Brown, thanks for the update.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
Haha! Hey! Yer exaggerat'n....

Black-Tooth said:
... Dash and the DIGITAL readouts with the CUSTOM Oil Pressure Guage and the CUSTOM Guage Faces... all through the spokes of an AFTERMARKET Steering Wheel... and you dare utter the word STOCK?
Click to expand...

All parts above mentioned in BLUE are original X1/9 parts. (not aftermarket) So don't exaggerate!!
They're just not original to "my" car....
The rest are just "enhancements"... :bla:
So there! :dead:
 
Great stuff as usual Bob!

My fans run constantly in this heat & humidity but never gets into the red zone... :eek:mg:

Nice to see we have a reference point on yur Odometer now 29,603 now get out and drive that beauty around...lets see you hit 30K before 2011 hahahaha :bla:
 
Do you have a link for the IC pump?

I did an eBay search without coming up with one close to that configuration... Since I've already cut my upper hose in two, should be pretty easy to set this up. I'll do copper, I can braise/solder that, stainless I have no way of dealing with.

Very nice work!
 
Ya know Greg...

I don't know what it is with you New Englanders and your low mileage cars...

I had a long SKYPE conversation with our NH friend today and I just don't get it.

As far as I can figure the only REAL difference with my car is the "fresh air" inlet to the carb and the lack of a rain tray.

I therefore would like you to consider driving around with your hood unlatched or off the car and see if this makes a major difference. I say major like in... not heating up over 210 degrees indicated and fan(s) cycling between 210 and 185 with 85 degree outside temps in traffic.

I ain't messing with you folks when I say my fans NEVER come on unless I am in that situation... and was so last Friday for 40 minutes or so.

The only other issue MIGHT be the A/C condenser in the way... or the license plate AT SPEED... but I'm basically saying this test can be conducted in the driveway.

Anyway... I feel for you folks struggling with these overheating issues... and I too use to experience similar situations, but never as extreme. I modified so many things at one time I truly don't know what made the single biggest difference.

OH... way back in the OLD days... I installed a quart of Duralube and watched the operating temp drop 17 degrees... I did this in several cars... and it really worked. I understand most synthetic oils do the same... and I run a semi-syn Castrol GTX 10-40 now.

Let us know if you try any of these ideas and it makes a difference...
 
Coolant pump

This was posted in Italy's eBay only 1 time that I could find and I was lucky to find this piece.

It came from "arf33 Racing" out of Italy, and you can buy one HERE:

Be sure to get the plug that goes with the pump. It's a separate item and you'll need it. It's listed right below the pump.

Good luck!
 
bbrown said:
This was posted in Italy's eBay only 1 time that I could find and I was lucky to find this piece.


Good luck!
Click to expand...

I found a domestic listing for a pump with these specs

Voltage: 12V DC
Current: 2.8A±10%
Capacity: 30L/Min (8 Gal/Min or 480Gal/Hr)
Motor type: brushless
3/4" Water inlet outlet
120mm Length

Seems like it should work, but it's almost 5" long - did you measure the over length of your pump?
 
Help with quotable famous name???

OK, if it looks like we need a name for this modification. Something that can be abbreviated, like the Manhattan project or the Brown wire mod. Then we can add it to the Wiki and refer to it by its acronym. Maybe:
The Brown Temperature Stability mod (BTS)
The Brown Cooling Modification (BCM)


After all my skepticism I think I am satisfied that flow at low rpm is the problem, at least part of it. Today while driving DOWN a long freeway road after the long uphill I tested the theory. The day was maybe 90 degrees, the A/C was on and the engine climbed from 190 degrees to one bar width above 190 while going uphill. The downhill was steep enough to slip it into neutral, while maintaining 80 mph. The temperature stayed at one bar above 190 for about 2 miles. Upon rpm increase (into gear) the temp went down to one bar lower than 190. So I think more flow is needed at idle.

Bob T.
 
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