headlights have relays, but I'm still not satisfied

Mike Richmond

Mike Richmond

True Classic
I have an '86 and added a low beam headlight relay, with power directly from the battery through a fuse. I went to 85/100 bulbs, and I still think things are too dim.

I replaced the sockets to the bulbs, but I kept the stock ground wires. They look like the problem now. Comments?

MikeR ('86X)
 
They likely are too dim

Because adding a relay isn't the whole answer.

The purpose of a relay is to switch higher currents to a device that (otherwise in this case) a switch can't handle.
But if the wires can't handle it, then the relay is working for nothing.
You need to supply a separate, high capacity feed line to the relay. I see you've done that.

Be sure your GROUND is good too. It's just as important!

If you're relying on your stock fuse panel to supply that current, you'll likely be disappointed.
Insure your feeding the relay with a fused 12Ga line direct from the battery and see if that makes the
difference. Let us know your results.
 
Are you using European H4s? I assume so. Double check the wiring at the bulb, the locations on the back of an H1 for (+) and (-) are different than US spec bulbs, you may be grounding through the high beam.
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/HeadlampWiring.aspx
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=120

The stock headlight wire grounds are the biggest grounds up there, save for the radiator fan. Unless the connectors are loose or corroded I wouldn't suspect them. Use an ohm meter to check.
 
Probably a bad ground ;>

Dwight's rule, right?

I disconnected the headlight socket (which is new, BTW) and with the battery only I get 11.24 at the battery and a measly 9.8 at the socket. That's without engine running and the opposite headlight lit (as well as parking lights and tail lights).

My eye was drawn to the rosette ground pods, which I have never paid attention to before. It looks like they could use cleaning up for sure. IIRC Mike Mittlestead just replaces them with ring terminals.

I see the ground wire for the headlight disappear into the harness, but I can't actually tell if it grounds to the rosette near the headlight.

It does, right?

Mike Richmond ('86X)
 
Wait a minute Mike...

The NEW power source DIRECTLY from the "battery through a fuse" should reflect the ACTUAL battery voltage. 11.4 can't be.

If it is... you have ONE hell of a voltage drop. Using 12 guage wire, you should essentially see the SAME EXACT voltage at the connector as at the battery. If not, I question if the relay is wired correctly. You should see 12.8 volts at rest and up to 14.1 with the engine running!

Please verify those voltages again and the wiring.

Hope this helps...
 
it makes sense to me...

11.4V at the battery would be because a bunch of lights are on.

At the socket, I'm measuring between the low beam connector and the ground part of the socket. So that means if there is too much resistance in the ground, I'd see lower voltage at the socket just as if the wire supplying the positive side of the socket were too thin.

My supply to the relays is a 10 gauge wire connected through a 25a fuse to the battery. Wires to the headlight sockets from the relay are 12 gauge.

Anyway, I'll clean up the rosettes and report back.

MikeR ('86X)
 
Cleaning spade terminals...

...is ongoing maintenance.
Replacing spade terms with soldered ring terms is lifetime cure for grounding issues.
In my humble experience...
 
this helps too

Instead of your typical hardware store or Craftsman crimper-- I like the kind sold at auto parts stores-- it's a RATCHETING type that makes MUCH tighter crimps with less effort. Especially if you are doing wires heavier than 14ga.

Something like this:
http://tinyurl.com/qyllbs
 
Mike... tell me you have 12.6 volts SOMEWHERE.

Take your VOM across the battery terminals at rest and tell me there is 12.6 volts or better. Then activate your lights and tell me you see 12.6 volts on the new RELAYED wire you just ran... by tying the -VOM lead to the CHASSIS and THEN compare it to the the ground lug on the connector. If you are still at 11.4 at either place... then tie the negative VOM lead to the - term on the battery. PROVE to yourself you have a good 12.6 volt source to the lights... and that will prove there is a "ground issue".

I hope I explained that well. Hey, if you don't have 12.6 between the new lead and the chassis and you proved you have 12.6 on the lead... then go back to theground strap on the transmission... remove it... sandpaper it all clean, and then reinstall. If this proves to be the problem, then you'll also want to run an additional strap up top... I run one between the firewall and the cam cover.

Hope this helps...
 
update

So, I don't think it was the grounds, but I did the ring terminal conversion anyway :>.

I replaced the main supply wire to the relay. It was 10 gauge, and since it was feeding two 10 gauge circuits (one for each headlight) I decided to go up to 8 gauge. I'm using 80W low beams so any voltage drop from being under load would make things dim. I also cleaned off the headlights themselves ;>.

So, we'll see how much all of this helps when it gets dark enough to tell.

I can't start up the car and drive it until I get the front hub put back together (see thread on broken thick washer), so that's all for now. Thanks for all the suggestions!

MikeR ('86X)
 
It's not the price...

It's the "kewl" factor! :cool:

Are these dual beam or separate hi/lo lamps?
 
Dual beam. The one pick shows the top half lit up, that's the low beam, and high is all the LED's lit. They are supposed to last something like 10,000 hours (MTBF) and draw less current that halogen. The light is much better that a standard light too... almost exactly like HID's in a mercedes...
 
Hey guys, I'm new here. I just bought Ice Blue from Jeff. I noticed that the lights were not very bright. All off the electrical updates had been done by Mike M before Jeff owned it. So I tried something different.

I bought a set of H4 conversion headlights for it, then I bought a hi/lo H4 HID conversion kit. This is the real HID not just the "blue look" bulbs. It cost me a total of $80. I know this is the Chinese stuff, but WOW what a difference. They are very bright. The low beams are HID and the highs are regular halogen bulbs. This kits come with plug and play harnesses. I did not have to cut a single wire and mounted the boxes in the area behind the headlights.
 
Dude...you wanna fry a cat naked at 200 yards?

Sounds like nuclear powered lighting you have there.
After I added headlight relays,
plain ol' generic seal beams gave plenty of light.
At least for my city and busy rural driving.
Or maybe I was just stoked to get the improvement made by relays.
Meaning they really sucked prior to relays.

I suppose in the wilds of Texas,
more candlepower is good.
To spot the errant steer.
Y'all got long horns or short horns?
Or just normal horns...

BTW, strongly recommend you drill carbie for proper ported vac advance.
I never got around to doing so.
Mostly because I didn't realize how much difference it makes!
Since Jeff bought IceBlue, I've driven identical carbed '79,
except it's had the carb drilled for vac advance.
Couldn't believe the difference.
Papa Tony has also done the same mod,
which Lezesig documented on Xweb some years ago.
JD undoubtedly knows where the post is...

Only other thing to rethink is those BFG tires are on heavy side
and have stiff sidewalls.
I liked the fat look of 195/60 at the time,
but since selling it,
I've become acquainted with merits of generic 175/70s
and improved ride quality they provide.
 
Thanks for the info. I need to do the vac mod and put new tires on it. I was going to go with a slightly smaller size.

I plan to drive this to work once in a while. Not too many steer, but a LOT of morrons drivers here - always on the cell phones, don't know what a yeild sign means...etc. I want the lights so they see me coming. Hopefully it will help in that tiny car.

Here are some pics of the lights. I only had one side done so you can see the difference.

light2.jpg


light1.jpg


light3.jpg
 
Wow! I'm convinced!

Killer lighting there Dude.
Nice to see the ring terminal mod,
and inside the headlight area.
Many hours spent inside the headlight area
to descuz and paint...areas that don't show,
but that's what I do.
Just spent 20 hours inside of the X-MSR 128 doors.
No rust on outside, but pulled door cards and found the daemon at work.

Nice to see pic of painted hood.
That was a quickie respray for Jeff.
I drove it for years with half the hood scabby.
To show what I started with.
And lived with non-matching door locks,
and funky clock for years.
Fixed those for Jeff as well.
Here's pic of hood. Old guy in background is me.
Mittlestead_X.jpg
 
Fascinating...

I'm interested in seeing what kind of pattern these throw. As in, what does the lighted area on a wall 20' away look like? Email me if you like.
 
Yeah

Since I put in the Bob Brown headlight mod my "regular" lights are definitely brighter. It works for me, but I'm going to upgrade lighting as well sometime in the future. Good info.

Brian
 
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