Converting FI to dual Webers
- Thread starter WhiteyM
- Start date
I wouldn't say simple, but not to difficult either.
With the exception of the obvious, replacing the FI with Carbs, you will also need a better cam if you expect to get anything out of them.
A less restrictive exhaust helps as well.
Finally you will need a good fuel pressure regulator as dual carbs only take 3.5psi per carb. Not the 40-60psi on an FI system.
Otherwise, your existing ignition will work just fine, as well everything else.
What parts of this do you want us to talk about more in depth?
Eric
With the exception of the obvious, replacing the FI with Carbs, you will also need a better cam if you expect to get anything out of them.
A less restrictive exhaust helps as well.
Finally you will need a good fuel pressure regulator as dual carbs only take 3.5psi per carb. Not the 40-60psi on an FI system.
Otherwise, your existing ignition will work just fine, as well everything else.
What parts of this do you want us to talk about more in depth?
Eric
WhiteyM
True Classic
Hi Eric,
I know I'd also want to change the cam, exhaust, etc. but I was wondering if the electronics of an FI car would have to be modified to accommodate carbs, and if the dual-carb intake manifold would bolt up to the FI head in place of the FI intake. Also if any other fabrication work is needed.
Here's the deal: I'm "kind of" shopping for an X1/9, and want to know if my goal is to convert to dual Webers, is there an advantage in buying a carb'd model or can I also consider an FI model? There just seems to be many more well-preserved FI models out there than the earlier carb'd versions. I like working on engines, but not on rust repair
.
I know I'd also want to change the cam, exhaust, etc. but I was wondering if the electronics of an FI car would have to be modified to accommodate carbs, and if the dual-carb intake manifold would bolt up to the FI head in place of the FI intake. Also if any other fabrication work is needed.
Here's the deal: I'm "kind of" shopping for an X1/9, and want to know if my goal is to convert to dual Webers, is there an advantage in buying a carb'd model or can I also consider an FI model? There just seems to be many more well-preserved FI models out there than the earlier carb'd versions. I like working on engines, but not on rust repair
.
AleX1/9
Has the sickness
easy conversion...
check out matt's store for either weber DCNF manifolds or DCOE (side draft) carbs here:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channelad...spx?Racing and High Pe...&sfid=82804&c=438696
every once in a while someone sells their whole setup here with manifold, carbs, linkage etc..
The main difference between the FI and Carb heads is the small relief cut into the top of the intake port for the injector to spray into. You can use carbs on an FI head as is, someone can chime in on if it's best to use a carb or FI gasket. Bolt the carbs on, change the fuel pump (or regulate down to correct pressure) ,cam, exhaust, compression bump (shave head), lightenned flywheel, some tuning, and you've got a hot X1/9 with minimal work
I'm not speaking from experience here but side drafts seem to be more difficult that the DCNF's becuase they interfere with the trunk wall in the motor compartment. The FI harness and relays comes out as one whole unit, so you won't have wires hanging out everywhere. Save the harness/relays/computer/intake/injectors/fuel rail/throttle body so you can sell someone here an FI conversion and recoup some cash
check out matt's store for either weber DCNF manifolds or DCOE (side draft) carbs here:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channelad...spx?Racing and High Pe...&sfid=82804&c=438696
every once in a while someone sells their whole setup here with manifold, carbs, linkage etc..
The main difference between the FI and Carb heads is the small relief cut into the top of the intake port for the injector to spray into. You can use carbs on an FI head as is, someone can chime in on if it's best to use a carb or FI gasket. Bolt the carbs on, change the fuel pump (or regulate down to correct pressure) ,cam, exhaust, compression bump (shave head), lightenned flywheel, some tuning, and you've got a hot X1/9 with minimal work
I'm not speaking from experience here but side drafts seem to be more difficult that the DCNF's becuase they interfere with the trunk wall in the motor compartment. The FI harness and relays comes out as one whole unit, so you won't have wires hanging out everywhere. Save the harness/relays/computer/intake/injectors/fuel rail/throttle body so you can sell someone here an FI conversion and recoup some cash
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
The parts are interchangeable
I am running a carb on my 86 race car right now. The intake manifold will bolt right up. Using a carbed head with FI, you should notch the intake port for the injectors, as already noted. But the other way around is a bolt-on.
But living in CA, isn't this kind of thing verboten? Or is there a 25-year rolling exemption or something?
Pete
I am running a carb on my 86 race car right now. The intake manifold will bolt right up. Using a carbed head with FI, you should notch the intake port for the injectors, as already noted. But the other way around is a bolt-on.
But living in CA, isn't this kind of thing verboten? Or is there a 25-year rolling exemption or something?
Pete
WhiteyM
True Classic
Yup, per the latest Kalifornia law any car 1976 or newer will never be exempt from smog. I've never been one to bend over to authority.
Actually, we (along with a lot of other taxpayers) are thinking of moving back to the midwest. Let CA worry about gay marriage and "global warming" while businesses leave and the state goes broke.
Actually, we (along with a lot of other taxpayers) are thinking of moving back to the midwest. Let CA worry about gay marriage and "global warming" while businesses leave and the state goes broke.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
I know plenty that have moved to N TX
Sold their 1600sf $1m homes and bought a place here that was 2-3x the size for 1/4 of the $. And nicer too.
I live in a smog-controlled county (1 county N of Dallas), but there is a 25-year rolling exemption here, so anything 84 or below (soon to be 85) does not need to be smogged. $14 "safety" inspection. They are supposed to perform a visual on it, and some places do. But more places dont. :whistle:
Pete
PS took a facebook poll the other day that showed 52% of participants think global warming was/is a hoax. People are catching on...
Sold their 1600sf $1m homes and bought a place here that was 2-3x the size for 1/4 of the $. And nicer too.
I live in a smog-controlled county (1 county N of Dallas), but there is a 25-year rolling exemption here, so anything 84 or below (soon to be 85) does not need to be smogged. $14 "safety" inspection. They are supposed to perform a visual on it, and some places do. But more places dont. :whistle:
Pete
PS took a facebook poll the other day that showed 52% of participants think global warming was/is a hoax. People are catching on...
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
I'm honestly not sure...
whether this was intended to be tongue-in-cheek or not. :confuse2: So I'm just going to sit back and smile.:whistle:
Have a good day!
Pete
whether this was intended to be tongue-in-cheek or not. :confuse2: So I'm just going to sit back and smile.
:whistle:Have a good day!
Pete
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Thought so...
but I didn't want to make any assumptions about political views and such... :wink2:
Pete
but I didn't want to make any assumptions about political views and such... :wink2:
Pete
TonyK
True Classic
Carbs
After 28 or so years of running a single 36DCNF I changed to Fuel injection. Not the Fiat Bosch unit but Mega Squirt. The down side in all of this was the loss of the sound of that carb on the engine. The plus was an engine with better idle with 40-80 Camshaft, better performace at higher RPM and lower fuel consumption. Because I built my own manifold with the injectors in the plenum the cooling fan wasn't required.
The exhaust system I also built and found it to be a plus too in the way the engine breaths.
MegSquirt has a steep learning curve and no one seems to be and expert, but the system works well and it is reliable. My son wants a newer rotary engine put in his first Gen RX7 and the only solution will be to run on Megasquirt.
Although I lke the carbs, they are prone to vapour lock and some fine tuning that can take a new comer days to understand and complete, the only part I miss is the sound that they make.
Here are a few links of my build, this is just another option for your consideration.
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/2858&highlight=TonyK
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/1757&highlight=TonyK
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/3400&highlight=TonyK
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada
After 28 or so years of running a single 36DCNF I changed to Fuel injection. Not the Fiat Bosch unit but Mega Squirt. The down side in all of this was the loss of the sound of that carb on the engine. The plus was an engine with better idle with 40-80 Camshaft, better performace at higher RPM and lower fuel consumption. Because I built my own manifold with the injectors in the plenum the cooling fan wasn't required.
The exhaust system I also built and found it to be a plus too in the way the engine breaths.
MegSquirt has a steep learning curve and no one seems to be and expert, but the system works well and it is reliable. My son wants a newer rotary engine put in his first Gen RX7 and the only solution will be to run on Megasquirt.
Although I lke the carbs, they are prone to vapour lock and some fine tuning that can take a new comer days to understand and complete, the only part I miss is the sound that they make.
Here are a few links of my build, this is just another option for your consideration.
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/2858&highlight=TonyK
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/1757&highlight=TonyK
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/3400&highlight=TonyK
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada
I saw TonyK's engine
... and engineering first hand at FFO this year and I must say impressive work.
Especially in how he positioned the injectors to be self-cooling.
His aluminum front grills weren't too hard to take too. :wink2:
Nice work TonyK, BTW. Great electromechanical engineering.
... and engineering first hand at FFO this year and I must say impressive work.
Especially in how he positioned the injectors to be self-cooling.
His aluminum front grills weren't too hard to take too. :wink2:
Nice work TonyK, BTW. Great electromechanical engineering.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Pete... the exemption in CA...
... WAS ONCE 30 years... but Arnold screwed us over by now requiring ALL 1976 cars and newer to pass smog every two years. They also must use ALL stock componants... which are now no longer manufactured and rarely available. (A K&N air filter is cause to fail the "visual" inspection.) And no rolling exemptions...
I have TWO WORDS for him and it ain't Happy Birthday...
... WAS ONCE 30 years... but Arnold screwed us over by now requiring ALL 1976 cars and newer to pass smog every two years. They also must use ALL stock componants... which are now no longer manufactured and rarely available. (A K&N air filter is cause to fail the "visual" inspection.) And no rolling exemptions...
I have TWO WORDS for him and it ain't Happy Birthday...
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Yeah... I was thinking of...
... KIDNAPPING Tony K and chaining him in the basement and make him build me custom parts and the like.... but the heat here would probably kill him...
HAHAHA!
... KIDNAPPING Tony K and chaining him in the basement and make him build me custom parts and the like.... but the heat here would probably kill him...
HAHAHA!
Dallarax19
Builder -Dallara Replica
I agree
There was a day when carbs was the only way to get the high rpm performance but those days are long gone. After many many years of tuning my DCOEs and working with OBDII FI engines, I highly recommend FI. In the end it will have more performance, specifically in the midrange, and it will be cheaper in the long run. Do the research and you will find there are "inexpensive" FI options.
To answer your original question either will work. I have a FI head on my engine (originally a carb engine) and after blending and opening up the ports the relief for the injectors is essentially gone. As mentioned there is no need for more carburetion unless you open up the ports, get a lofty cam, bump the compression, etc, etc, etc.
There is my $0.02
There was a day when carbs was the only way to get the high rpm performance but those days are long gone. After many many years of tuning my DCOEs and working with OBDII FI engines, I highly recommend FI. In the end it will have more performance, specifically in the midrange, and it will be cheaper in the long run. Do the research and you will find there are "inexpensive" FI options.
To answer your original question either will work. I have a FI head on my engine (originally a carb engine) and after blending and opening up the ports the relief for the injectors is essentially gone. As mentioned there is no need for more carburetion unless you open up the ports, get a lofty cam, bump the compression, etc, etc, etc.
There is my $0.02
WhiteyM
True Classic
If it were just a hoax, it would be funny that so many people could be duped. But it's actually a SCAM to get people to give up more of their freedom and independence to government.
It's the same "Big Lie" technique used by the Nazis. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of modern liberals:
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/-if_you_tell_a_lie_big_enough_and_keep_repeating/345877.html
It's the same "Big Lie" technique used by the Nazis. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of modern liberals:
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/-if_you_tell_a_lie_big_enough_and_keep_repeating/345877.html
ng_randolph
Bjorn H
Fast idle valve?
I don't think A/C was ever an option on carbed X's. If you convert to carbs and retain the A/C you would need to add some form of fast idle valve, or the car would have driveability issues when you are using the A/C.
I don't think A/C was ever an option on carbed X's. If you convert to carbs and retain the A/C you would need to add some form of fast idle valve, or the car would have driveability issues when you are using the A/C.