My X is a 1987 model, and the previous one was an '86. Neither of them have/had over 75,000 miles on them. Every other car I've owned had racked up tons of miles when I got them. So the question is, how reliable were these things when they were new? I mean mechanically, we all know the story behind the bodies, and the electronics seem to be barely adequate.
A question just came to me
- Thread starter macruadhi
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Mark Plaia
True Classic
I bought my '79 in 1980....
It had 30,000 miles when I bought it. It was my only car - I drove, commuted and traveled in it. Drove it for 3 years and 60,000 miles. In that time I blew a head gasket most probably from not bleeding it properly. The car did fine by me. That was my first X.
My third lasted me 16 1/2 years and about 80,000 miles. That one only came home on the hook once, when I got slushy ice thrown up in to the timing belt and it skipped a tooth. I even drove home with a blown transaxle one time. I drove, toured, raced and showed that car.
They did just fine if cared for properly.
Ciao,
It had 30,000 miles when I bought it. It was my only car - I drove, commuted and traveled in it. Drove it for 3 years and 60,000 miles. In that time I blew a head gasket most probably from not bleeding it properly. The car did fine by me. That was my first X.
My third lasted me 16 1/2 years and about 80,000 miles. That one only came home on the hook once, when I got slushy ice thrown up in to the timing belt and it skipped a tooth. I even drove home with a blown transaxle one time. I drove, toured, raced and showed that car.
They did just fine if cared for properly.
Ciao,
Jeremy128
True Classic
While I've only owned FIats for a few years, I have a similar experience. I got my 76 Spider with 99k miles on it. I had it for two years and drove it alot. The only tim eit left me stranded was when teh alternator gave out. Fortunately it was only a cuple blocks from home, so I pulled it back with my truck. BTW, it was the original altenator. Not bad considering it was 32 years old with over 100K miles.
I got my 128 2 years ago with 39K original miles on it. Besides a fuel pump issue, I've had no real problems with it. In 2 years I've put 15K miles on it, and it' srun great! Sure it burns a bit of oil, and needs the occasional coolant topping off, but hey, all old cars needed that stuff.
As long as you take care of teh cars, they will be fine.
In my opinion, one of the reasons that there are the old Fiats with low miles on them may be due to ignorace. When these cars were new, it was difficult to find a decent mechanic to work on them. AS a result, frequenlty, a small problem will stop the car from running. Then the cars would sit for decades becuase no one would work on them. All ti takes is someone who understands how these cars work, and POOF! Another FIat is brought out of the shadows.
I got my 128 2 years ago with 39K original miles on it. Besides a fuel pump issue, I've had no real problems with it. In 2 years I've put 15K miles on it, and it' srun great! Sure it burns a bit of oil, and needs the occasional coolant topping off, but hey, all old cars needed that stuff.
As long as you take care of teh cars, they will be fine.
In my opinion, one of the reasons that there are the old Fiats with low miles on them may be due to ignorace. When these cars were new, it was difficult to find a decent mechanic to work on them. AS a result, frequenlty, a small problem will stop the car from running. Then the cars would sit for decades becuase no one would work on them. All ti takes is someone who understands how these cars work, and POOF! Another FIat is brought out of the shadows.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Bought my '79 in '83 with...
... about 42K on the clock...
At less than 48K I had the trans overhauled and a new clutch installed... then my wife and I drove it in LA traffic to work and back 54 miles a day for another 100K miles.
When I couldn't get the water pump out 'cause it started leaking... it sat for 7 years... then I restarted it on 7 year old gas.
It has 168K on it and three transmissions, 4 clutches, three brake jobs, two Clutch Masters and one slave, two carbs. All the messing around since it was ressurected... but the head and pan has NEVER been off this engine. 145 pounds per cylinder and 30+ mpg on the freeway and HE runs better than new.
How's that???
... about 42K on the clock...
At less than 48K I had the trans overhauled and a new clutch installed... then my wife and I drove it in LA traffic to work and back 54 miles a day for another 100K miles.
When I couldn't get the water pump out 'cause it started leaking... it sat for 7 years... then I restarted it on 7 year old gas.
It has 168K on it and three transmissions, 4 clutches, three brake jobs, two Clutch Masters and one slave, two carbs. All the messing around since it was ressurected... but the head and pan has NEVER been off this engine. 145 pounds per cylinder and 30+ mpg on the freeway and HE runs better than new.
How's that???
My biggest reason for asking is the 86 I had lasted exactly one hour before it broke, never to run again. The one I have now I've had for over ten years, most of which it has not run. I am trying to get myself psyched up to go out and start working on it because, This summer will be the one when she shall run again. ( did ya hear the dramatic music in the background?)
sdlsaginaw
Steven Lawson
Well, this is the place to be
If you can't get it running and reliable through the knowledge on this forum, something is seriously wrong...
If you can't get it running and reliable through the knowledge on this forum, something is seriously wrong...
Jim McKenzie
1972 850 Spider
LOL
we should form a club...sometimes I feel that way when unlocking the car doors..."if I don't do this right, I'll break it..."
we should form a club...sometimes I feel that way when unlocking the car doors..."if I don't do this right, I'll break it..."
kmead
Old enough to know better
Although I have owned many over the years I haven't put huge miles on any of them. My current X and my last X were both my daily drivers for extended periods (during the spring summer and fall) and neither of them left me stranded ever. My VWs have always been more problematic with some of their fussy engineering.
My experience with Fiats when I buy them has been:
Replace the maintenance items. Go through the primary systems and replace the soft parts (belts, hoses, flex lines, fluids, plug wires, dist cap, rotor, plugs, filters. new pads, new rotors) flush all the fluids and verify things are working. Repair what is clearly broken.
Fix the stupid things previous owners and ham handed, know nothing mechanics have done to the car. This usually takes longer than the first list and a whole lot more head scratching.
Tadaa! A pretty reliable car.
Which may need more maintenance than a 2010 Toyota, but not much more than a 1984 Toyota would have been. These cars are basically simple, there is no multiplexing in the electrical system, the FI is very simple and uses simple switches, relays and rheostats to function and the mechanical parts (on a 1979 and newer) are pretty robust and well made. Some of them are hard to remove I must admit.
When Fiat went to electronic ignition, particularly the Bosch set up in the X, reliability went way up. With the ultra simple Bosch LJetronic fuel injection it went up even more, presuming it was even slightly maintained.
The biggest ills of any Fiat are of course rust and lack of maintenance. One of those maintenance issues is of course cleaning grounds and ensuring things that need power get and have a way to return it. A couple of ways drivers kill their Fiats is to: ignore the timing belt (trashing the valves and sometimes the pistons), ignore the cooling system (congealed coolant with no corrosion inhibitors or large air pockets) and shifting too fast (destroying the syncros in second and third) these cars are never going to win the stop light grand prix and no amount of fast shifting will do so.
Will there be challenges in performing all of this? Absolutely. Will it leave you by the side of the road, maybe but so could a lot of other cars from that same era. My experience is that if it starts, it will likely keep running until I shut it off.
Look at the many posts of JVanDyke for a primer on a someone who has resurrected a long fallow car using perseverance and methodical chasing through the car. Fixing a car, any car, is a logic problem, nearly every part follows a sequence. If this switch opens then "that" should happen, if it doesn't then something between the two elements has failed, find that failure. Becoming familiar with the systems and their relationships to each other will be among your best and most important tools.
Sorry for the lengthy post. Good luck with your coming project.
My experience with Fiats when I buy them has been:
Replace the maintenance items. Go through the primary systems and replace the soft parts (belts, hoses, flex lines, fluids, plug wires, dist cap, rotor, plugs, filters. new pads, new rotors) flush all the fluids and verify things are working. Repair what is clearly broken.
Fix the stupid things previous owners and ham handed, know nothing mechanics have done to the car. This usually takes longer than the first list and a whole lot more head scratching.
Tadaa! A pretty reliable car.
Which may need more maintenance than a 2010 Toyota, but not much more than a 1984 Toyota would have been. These cars are basically simple, there is no multiplexing in the electrical system, the FI is very simple and uses simple switches, relays and rheostats to function and the mechanical parts (on a 1979 and newer) are pretty robust and well made. Some of them are hard to remove I must admit.
When Fiat went to electronic ignition, particularly the Bosch set up in the X, reliability went way up. With the ultra simple Bosch LJetronic fuel injection it went up even more, presuming it was even slightly maintained.
The biggest ills of any Fiat are of course rust and lack of maintenance. One of those maintenance issues is of course cleaning grounds and ensuring things that need power get and have a way to return it. A couple of ways drivers kill their Fiats is to: ignore the timing belt (trashing the valves and sometimes the pistons), ignore the cooling system (congealed coolant with no corrosion inhibitors or large air pockets) and shifting too fast (destroying the syncros in second and third) these cars are never going to win the stop light grand prix and no amount of fast shifting will do so.
Will there be challenges in performing all of this? Absolutely. Will it leave you by the side of the road, maybe but so could a lot of other cars from that same era. My experience is that if it starts, it will likely keep running until I shut it off.
Look at the many posts of JVanDyke for a primer on a someone who has resurrected a long fallow car using perseverance and methodical chasing through the car. Fixing a car, any car, is a logic problem, nearly every part follows a sequence. If this switch opens then "that" should happen, if it doesn't then something between the two elements has failed, find that failure. Becoming familiar with the systems and their relationships to each other will be among your best and most important tools.
Sorry for the lengthy post. Good luck with your coming project.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
I bought my 86 new...
and was not particularly hard on it, but it lunched the transmission before 10k miles. Covered under the Ford warranty I bought with the vehicle (Ford dealership sold it). After that, a somewhat leaky cam-box gasket was really the only problem I had. Unless you want to count the occasional overheating (Texas summers get a bit hotter than northern Italy, apparently).
I was a bit disappointed at the transmission, but overall I would say the car was as good/reliable as anything us Americans were building at the time. And of course, way better looking and way more fun.
Pete
and was not particularly hard on it, but it lunched the transmission before 10k miles. Covered under the Ford warranty I bought with the vehicle (Ford dealership sold it). After that, a somewhat leaky cam-box gasket was really the only problem I had. Unless you want to count the occasional overheating (Texas summers get a bit hotter than northern Italy, apparently).
I was a bit disappointed at the transmission, but overall I would say the car was as good/reliable as anything us Americans were building at the time. And of course, way better looking and way more fun.
Pete
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
HAHAHA... Yep...
But for the first 6 months... everything that goes wrong can be blamed on the Previous Owner (PO)...
From then on... you can entertain yourself by kicking your own arse!
You're in a good group that had "Been There, Done That!"
But for the first 6 months... everything that goes wrong can be blamed on the Previous Owner (PO)...
From then on... you can entertain yourself by kicking your own arse!
You're in a good group that had "Been There, Done That!"
JDExSquid
Dodge 2.2TII Swap
I seem to have had better luck!
I bought my first X, an 86, as a repo back in 91 or 92. It had a hair over 9000 miles. It was my ONLY driver and I put over 100K miles on the car with virtually no problems at all! Transmission was always perfect. I had to put a clutch and brake master in it, of course. The only engine work done was the timing belt and I replaced valve stem seals when it developed smoke at startup. That fixed it. Electrical problems were minimal; Main brown wire plug smoked and the famous coil wire wiggled loose. The X always required a proactive approach to maintenance instead of a reactive approach like you can get away with in your Honda. That X1/9 NEVER failed to start and run, even when my other cars failed.
I bought my first X, an 86, as a repo back in 91 or 92. It had a hair over 9000 miles. It was my ONLY driver and I put over 100K miles on the car with virtually no problems at all! Transmission was always perfect. I had to put a clutch and brake master in it, of course. The only engine work done was the timing belt and I replaced valve stem seals when it developed smoke at startup. That fixed it. Electrical problems were minimal; Main brown wire plug smoked and the famous coil wire wiggled loose. The X always required a proactive approach to maintenance instead of a reactive approach like you can get away with in your Honda. That X1/9 NEVER failed to start and run, even when my other cars failed.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Mechanically the X is very robust.. I have used them as a daily commuter for years, always reliable, never broke on the road, low fuel consumption and FUN to drive. As long as the fluids are given the required attention, timing belt replaced as required, valves adjusted as required and etc.. Let this stuff go and there will be problems.
One of the commuter X's racked up over 150,000 miles on the original engine/transaxle.
LeMons racing has proven the X to be one of the better cars for LeMons endurance racing. If any car can survive a LeMons race or races, it's got what it takes mechanically.
The stock engine has a 7,000 RPM stock redline, don't be afraid to use it.
The problems with electricals are over blown for the later 1500/5 speed cars. The majority of "electrical problems" are due to connection problems which can effect all cars. Other than the dreaded brown wire problem. The later cars with Bosch electricals are reliable and problem free as long as the connections are good and not neglected when problems do happen.
As for rust... it's no worst than similar cars of the era. The later cars are better than the earlier cars..
The X is best enjoyed when driven 9/10 or 10/10 to an inch of it's life on a daily basis... This is when the owner discovers just how good and tough this little car really is.
Bernice
One of the commuter X's racked up over 150,000 miles on the original engine/transaxle.
LeMons racing has proven the X to be one of the better cars for LeMons endurance racing. If any car can survive a LeMons race or races, it's got what it takes mechanically.
The stock engine has a 7,000 RPM stock redline, don't be afraid to use it.
The problems with electricals are over blown for the later 1500/5 speed cars. The majority of "electrical problems" are due to connection problems which can effect all cars. Other than the dreaded brown wire problem. The later cars with Bosch electricals are reliable and problem free as long as the connections are good and not neglected when problems do happen.
As for rust... it's no worst than similar cars of the era. The later cars are better than the earlier cars..
The X is best enjoyed when driven 9/10 or 10/10 to an inch of it's life on a daily basis... This is when the owner discovers just how good and tough this little car really is.
Bernice
Wyverndude
True Classic
Mine has been good
I bought my 1981 X1/9 in 1987 with 56K from the second owner; with the transaxle in pieces and literally in a bucket.
It was my main driver and only car for most of the period until 2003. During all that time, it only left me on the side of the road once when the ignition module went bad. At that, I'm not sure that counts because after it cooled down it ran fine and got me home.
The only hired wrench to ever touch it is for smog and tires. I rebuilt the engine (a piece of spark plug broke off and got caught in a valve and burned it) at 286K but only because everybody scared me into it.
The compression ring grooves were oversize on all four pistons, but every other specification in the engine was within tolerance for building an engine from new parts.
Of course, by the time I knew that, I had my new parts and the engine was all taken apart so I went ahead with the whole rebuild and balanced the crank while I was at it.
I used Slick-50 from when I got the car, and change my Castrol 20-50 every 3K miles.
It currently has 388K miles on it; and I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a long trip.
Actually I'm hoping that when Fiat makes their return to the US that they might sponsor a coast-to-coast drive. It would be a great promotion for them, for all these old Fiats to drive from sea to shining sea. Mine's ready to go!
I bought my 1981 X1/9 in 1987 with 56K from the second owner; with the transaxle in pieces and literally in a bucket.
It was my main driver and only car for most of the period until 2003. During all that time, it only left me on the side of the road once when the ignition module went bad. At that, I'm not sure that counts because after it cooled down it ran fine and got me home.
The only hired wrench to ever touch it is for smog and tires. I rebuilt the engine (a piece of spark plug broke off and got caught in a valve and burned it) at 286K but only because everybody scared me into it.
The compression ring grooves were oversize on all four pistons, but every other specification in the engine was within tolerance for building an engine from new parts.
Of course, by the time I knew that, I had my new parts and the engine was all taken apart so I went ahead with the whole rebuild and balanced the crank while I was at it.
I used Slick-50 from when I got the car, and change my Castrol 20-50 every 3K miles.
It currently has 388K miles on it; and I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a long trip.
Actually I'm hoping that when Fiat makes their return to the US that they might sponsor a coast-to-coast drive. It would be a great promotion for them, for all these old Fiats to drive from sea to shining sea. Mine's ready to go!