<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]ARRGGGHHHH! (timing belt and others.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999 at 8:29 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("Doc"); // --> </SCRIPT>Doc <NOSCRIPT> Doc </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->1) I went to start on the timing belt last night (see my thread from a week or two ago) I can't figure out for the life of me how to access the belt! I removed the trunk panels (more on this below) and can see the alternator, etc, but can't get to the bearing. I took the wheel off, figuring there must be an access panel, but I can't find it. Does it have to be removed from underneath? I am not really confortable working under jack stands, and I don't have access to a lift, so I may have to take it in. Advice?
2) I never realized the the trunk has a false bottom! I took the trunk panels out, and found a REALLY rusty sub floor! I can fix the floor without too much difficulty (cut and weld, cut and weld!
But wanted to know if I should consider this a structural concern (ie: lateral flex) it will make a difference in how I repair... Steel is stiffer, but harder to work with, and will rust again in the future. I'd rather repair with Aluminum to save a bit of weight, and it's easier to work with, but won't if it will create a structural problem.
I'm really bummed that I missed this rust before.... it is far and away the worst on the car. Oh, one last thing... the layers of fiberglass in the trunk... are they for sound dampening, heat protection, or both? If it is only for sound, I will replace it with Dynamat... it won't hold any water, and it much thinner... I can get a bit more trunk clearance that way. Why do they have this false bottom anyway? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Doc.
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Arrrggghhh...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 10:03 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc,
1) I would jack up the rear or the right side, remove the right wheel. Now you should have enough clearance to be able to remove the V-belt(s) from top and side.
Remove timing belt cover, look down from top and locate tensioner.
I use a small crow bar that I stick under the idler and lever up carefully. This will push the tensioner back. While I hold the crow bar with my right hand, I fasten visegrips to the plunger that comes out the back of the bracket, thus holding the tensioner in its retracted position.
Now you can remove the belt.
I don't think you have to get under the car, but then again I have a 1300...
2) Yes, bad rust spot. Were you going to weld AL to steel? Does that work? It would be nice because tit doesn't rust. The floor is not structural.
The fiberglass and the double floor are there for heat insulation. If you leave both out, you can fry eggs on your trunk floor. I would put heat insulation back in, but maybe use something that doesn't absorb as much water. I used 2" thick hard foam insulation sheet from the hardware store.
The rust problem is created by the extreme temperature fluctuation in the false floor area. The will always be condensation in there.
Ulix
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Gilles[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Tips<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 12:27 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc:
This is what I do;
First I put the car in stands (it's easier to work at the proper height)
Then I remove the rear tire, and the distributor inspection cover from the spare tire compartment, then I remove the timing belt covers (top & bottom)
Then remove the water pump pulley and belt at the crankshaft.
Now get to work
First align the mark at the top of the gear cam, mark the position of the rotor on the distibutor
Then, I loose the 17mm tensioner nut, pull the tensioner ALL THE WAY TO THE LEFT, then tighten the nut again (this will keep the tensioner open)
Remove the belt from the cam gear, then from the Aux. shaft and from the crankshaft at the bottom.
To install the new belt; You can drop it from the top, but first you get it at the crankshaft pulley then through the Aux. Shaft gear, being sure that the belt is properly seated on the bottom pulley (no slack)then at last the cam gear (This is the fun part), Be patient and DO NOT use a screwdriver to help you.
Once the belt is installed CHECK that the crankshaft mark is at "0 Deg." (the right mark on the pulley)and also check that the cam gear mark is aligned.
Rotate the engine with the belt at least one complete revolution (It's easier without the plugs) and CHECK AGAIN your timing marks at the crankshaft and cam gears.
If they are Ok, then you can loose again the tensioner nut to re-tighten the belt, then tight the nut again, and that's it!
Now if the rotor on the distributor has moved, simply remove the 13mm nut, raise the distributor a bit and re-align the rotor with the mark you made earlier.
Install again the water pump belt and it's half pulley and now you are ready to set the timing.
Again, at the bottom pulley align the mark with the third left mark on the pulley "10 Deg."
I have aquired some practice in the past years, and I actually find it to be a fun project (actually, the only hard part is getting the new belt into the cam gear)
Good luck, I hope my tip helps.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("doc"); // --> </SCRIPT>doc <NOSCRIPT> doc </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ok, so...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 6:04 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->It sounds like most of the work is actually done from inside the car? I guess that's what I am confused about... accessing the belts rather than actually changing them. SO I go in from inside and not underneath? This is so confusing... maybe I should trust it to the hands of a professional!
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Gilles[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Come on Doc, be brave!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 15 1999, 8:10 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc:
First of all I suggest you to take a good look at your engine compartment in order to get familiar with the layout.
You will notice the yellow plastic shell that covers the timing belt, actually it's a two piece thing (top & bottom) held in place by 10mm bolts.
Why don't you remove the top part of the yellow cover in order to see what it's all about,is fairly simple and that way you can evaluate the task.
Trust me it's much easier than it sounds, and actually the hardest part is working in the tight compartment.
If you have PATIENCE it could be acomplished fairly easy (you may end with scratched knucles, but nothing worse).
And the best part is not only saving the $90-120 that the mechanic will charge for the labor required to replace the timing belt, definitely the best part is the sense of acomplishment and pride everytime you drive your car knowing that you fix it yourself.
I guess that we are very lucky indeed to have all the support from the guys at this forum, and I am sure that if you have any doubt during your repair there will be plenty of technical support to get your car running and back on the road!
Cheers Doc!
P.S. After you replace that belt you will be very surprised how much confidence you will have for the next repair (perhaps clutch,master cylinders, head gasket?)
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steve"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steve <NOSCRIPT> Steve </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->timing<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 22 2002, 2:25 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->How do you align the crank mark on a 77x when you cant see it ?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->rust in rear trunk floor...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 4:28 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc,
Since Ulix & Gilles have pretty much covered the timing belt issue, I have only to add that the rusty trunk floor is in fact a common problem.
When I got my '80 I checked for rust in all the critical places, but not much else. It was a steal so I was not going to be too critical
But later, I eventually had to replace my voltage regulator. I was going to remove the access panel in the rear trunk. I got in there and took out the false floor and WHOAHOLYSH*T - there it was: RUST! It looked baaad too, at first glance. The entire *real* floor was shot.
I can feel your grief man! But do not worry too much, it is not a structural area. As long as the frame rails (the really important things) which the floor is attached to are intact and have suffered no more than surface rust, you are not in trouble. You can just cut the rusty panel right out, clean up the area and put a new panel in.
Ulix took advantage of the time he had that panel out: while the thing was open he went ahead and did his custom exhaust work! Good timing.
Anyhow, I was really ticked-off too when I first discovered my rusty trunk floor beneath the false panel. Don't sweat though - while it is not a pleasant discovery, it is not critical either as far as rust could go, and ultimately it really is better that you discovered it now instead of later!
My rusty floor is still in there. I will be tackling that project too sometime in the not-too-distant-future. -Mac.
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("doc"); // --> </SCRIPT>doc <NOSCRIPT> doc </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rusty floor...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 6:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have seen and fixed much worse... I was just really shocked... I didn't even know there was a "sub floor"! The frame is fine... not even surface rust.
To answer the earlier question of steel and aluminum welding... it can be done. It ain't pretty and you need to use a ton of flux and wire. What I will probably do is cut out the old floor, then fabricate an aluminum panel. I'll install a few pop rivets to hold it in place (screws would also work if you dont have access to a riviter) then use the tack and bead method. Basically, start at each end, and leave beads... keep switching sides and let it cool until you get to the middle. It takes a long time, and really looks messy, but since it won't show, I think it is the best route to go. I might as well cut out the rust from the trunk wells and fix that while I am at it...
Hey, maybe I shoudl take pictures as I go and submit it to the new Sea X mag!
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Mac"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT> Mac </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->YES! that's a wonderful idea<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 10:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
See if you can raise Bill Neill via email, Doc - I think this would be a great tech article for our first issue, as it is a common encounter whilst removing the false floor for the first time! *;o
See what Bill has to say, he's the editor - Last we spoke he was gathering ideas in the forum here about what we all would want in a SeaX mag? So this seems a good one to hit him with. His email addy is downstream somewhere, or also in the Oregon Registry page. -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]scot[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->rusty trunk<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 19 1999, 5:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->consider using aluminum/fiberglass honeycomb for your replacement,bond in with sikaflex[from doc fremans or ballard hardware]. honeycomb from boeing surplus. much stiffer and lighter than most alternatives. great bragging rights too! <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999 at 8:29 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("Doc"); // --> </SCRIPT>Doc <NOSCRIPT> Doc </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->1) I went to start on the timing belt last night (see my thread from a week or two ago) I can't figure out for the life of me how to access the belt! I removed the trunk panels (more on this below) and can see the alternator, etc, but can't get to the bearing. I took the wheel off, figuring there must be an access panel, but I can't find it. Does it have to be removed from underneath? I am not really confortable working under jack stands, and I don't have access to a lift, so I may have to take it in. Advice?
2) I never realized the the trunk has a false bottom! I took the trunk panels out, and found a REALLY rusty sub floor! I can fix the floor without too much difficulty (cut and weld, cut and weld!
But wanted to know if I should consider this a structural concern (ie: lateral flex) it will make a difference in how I repair... Steel is stiffer, but harder to work with, and will rust again in the future. I'd rather repair with Aluminum to save a bit of weight, and it's easier to work with, but won't if it will create a structural problem. I'm really bummed that I missed this rust before.... it is far and away the worst on the car. Oh, one last thing... the layers of fiberglass in the trunk... are they for sound dampening, heat protection, or both? If it is only for sound, I will replace it with Dynamat... it won't hold any water, and it much thinner... I can get a bit more trunk clearance that way. Why do they have this false bottom anyway? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Doc.
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Arrrggghhh...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 10:03 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc,
1) I would jack up the rear or the right side, remove the right wheel. Now you should have enough clearance to be able to remove the V-belt(s) from top and side.
Remove timing belt cover, look down from top and locate tensioner.
I use a small crow bar that I stick under the idler and lever up carefully. This will push the tensioner back. While I hold the crow bar with my right hand, I fasten visegrips to the plunger that comes out the back of the bracket, thus holding the tensioner in its retracted position.
Now you can remove the belt.
I don't think you have to get under the car, but then again I have a 1300...
2) Yes, bad rust spot. Were you going to weld AL to steel? Does that work? It would be nice because tit doesn't rust. The floor is not structural.
The fiberglass and the double floor are there for heat insulation. If you leave both out, you can fry eggs on your trunk floor. I would put heat insulation back in, but maybe use something that doesn't absorb as much water. I used 2" thick hard foam insulation sheet from the hardware store.
The rust problem is created by the extreme temperature fluctuation in the false floor area. The will always be condensation in there.
Ulix
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Tips<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 12:27 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc:
This is what I do;
First I put the car in stands (it's easier to work at the proper height)
Then I remove the rear tire, and the distributor inspection cover from the spare tire compartment, then I remove the timing belt covers (top & bottom)
Then remove the water pump pulley and belt at the crankshaft.
Now get to work
First align the mark at the top of the gear cam, mark the position of the rotor on the distibutor
Then, I loose the 17mm tensioner nut, pull the tensioner ALL THE WAY TO THE LEFT, then tighten the nut again (this will keep the tensioner open)
Remove the belt from the cam gear, then from the Aux. shaft and from the crankshaft at the bottom.
To install the new belt; You can drop it from the top, but first you get it at the crankshaft pulley then through the Aux. Shaft gear, being sure that the belt is properly seated on the bottom pulley (no slack)then at last the cam gear (This is the fun part), Be patient and DO NOT use a screwdriver to help you.
Once the belt is installed CHECK that the crankshaft mark is at "0 Deg." (the right mark on the pulley)and also check that the cam gear mark is aligned.
Rotate the engine with the belt at least one complete revolution (It's easier without the plugs) and CHECK AGAIN your timing marks at the crankshaft and cam gears.
If they are Ok, then you can loose again the tensioner nut to re-tighten the belt, then tight the nut again, and that's it!
Now if the rotor on the distributor has moved, simply remove the 13mm nut, raise the distributor a bit and re-align the rotor with the mark you made earlier.
Install again the water pump belt and it's half pulley and now you are ready to set the timing.
Again, at the bottom pulley align the mark with the third left mark on the pulley "10 Deg."
I have aquired some practice in the past years, and I actually find it to be a fun project (actually, the only hard part is getting the new belt into the cam gear)
Good luck, I hope my tip helps.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ok, so...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 6:04 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->It sounds like most of the work is actually done from inside the car? I guess that's what I am confused about... accessing the belts rather than actually changing them. SO I go in from inside and not underneath? This is so confusing... maybe I should trust it to the hands of a professional!
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Come on Doc, be brave!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 15 1999, 8:10 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc:
First of all I suggest you to take a good look at your engine compartment in order to get familiar with the layout.
You will notice the yellow plastic shell that covers the timing belt, actually it's a two piece thing (top & bottom) held in place by 10mm bolts.
Why don't you remove the top part of the yellow cover in order to see what it's all about,is fairly simple and that way you can evaluate the task.
Trust me it's much easier than it sounds, and actually the hardest part is working in the tight compartment.
If you have PATIENCE it could be acomplished fairly easy (you may end with scratched knucles, but nothing worse).
And the best part is not only saving the $90-120 that the mechanic will charge for the labor required to replace the timing belt, definitely the best part is the sense of acomplishment and pride everytime you drive your car knowing that you fix it yourself.
I guess that we are very lucky indeed to have all the support from the guys at this forum, and I am sure that if you have any doubt during your repair there will be plenty of technical support to get your car running and back on the road!
Cheers Doc!
P.S. After you replace that belt you will be very surprised how much confidence you will have for the next repair (perhaps clutch,master cylinders, head gasket?)
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->timing<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 22 2002, 2:25 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->How do you align the crank mark on a 77x when you cant see it ?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->rust in rear trunk floor...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 4:28 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Doc,
Since Ulix & Gilles have pretty much covered the timing belt issue, I have only to add that the rusty trunk floor is in fact a common problem.
When I got my '80 I checked for rust in all the critical places, but not much else. It was a steal so I was not going to be too critical
But later, I eventually had to replace my voltage regulator. I was going to remove the access panel in the rear trunk. I got in there and took out the false floor and WHOAHOLYSH*T - there it was: RUST! It looked baaad too, at first glance. The entire *real* floor was shot.
I can feel your grief man! But do not worry too much, it is not a structural area. As long as the frame rails (the really important things) which the floor is attached to are intact and have suffered no more than surface rust, you are not in trouble. You can just cut the rusty panel right out, clean up the area and put a new panel in.
Ulix took advantage of the time he had that panel out: while the thing was open he went ahead and did his custom exhaust work! Good timing.
Anyhow, I was really ticked-off too when I first discovered my rusty trunk floor beneath the false panel. Don't sweat though - while it is not a pleasant discovery, it is not critical either as far as rust could go, and ultimately it really is better that you discovered it now instead of later!
My rusty floor is still in there. I will be tackling that project too sometime in the not-too-distant-future. -Mac.
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rusty floor...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 6:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have seen and fixed much worse... I was just really shocked... I didn't even know there was a "sub floor"! The frame is fine... not even surface rust.
To answer the earlier question of steel and aluminum welding... it can be done. It ain't pretty and you need to use a ton of flux and wire. What I will probably do is cut out the old floor, then fabricate an aluminum panel. I'll install a few pop rivets to hold it in place (screws would also work if you dont have access to a riviter) then use the tack and bead method. Basically, start at each end, and leave beads... keep switching sides and let it cool until you get to the middle. It takes a long time, and really looks messy, but since it won't show, I think it is the best route to go. I might as well cut out the rust from the trunk wells and fix that while I am at it...
Hey, maybe I shoudl take pictures as I go and submit it to the new Sea X mag!
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->YES! that's a wonderful idea<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 14 1999, 10:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
See if you can raise Bill Neill via email, Doc - I think this would be a great tech article for our first issue, as it is a common encounter whilst removing the false floor for the first time! *;o
See what Bill has to say, he's the editor - Last we spoke he was gathering ideas in the forum here about what we all would want in a SeaX mag? So this seems a good one to hit him with. His email addy is downstream somewhere, or also in the Oregon Registry page. -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->rusty trunk<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 19 1999, 5:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->consider using aluminum/fiberglass honeycomb for your replacement,bond in with sikaflex[from doc fremans or ballard hardware]. honeycomb from boeing surplus. much stiffer and lighter than most alternatives. great bragging rights too! <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]