Best LED light for Break, Running and Reverse

CaliforniaX1/9

CaliforniaX1/9

LarsSivad
I picked up a red LED with 18LEDs, they seem to be fine for the running light but in my opinion not bright enough for break, running or a reverse light.

I was able to do some searching on the Xweb and found a considerable amount of information (thanks BB!:king:), yet on one posting it noted an update would be coming (maybe due to a better options now exists?).

Searching on eBay, there seems to be an abundance of lights in many different orientations; lights on a stick, around a probe, sticking out like a flashlight, etc.

So if anybody can help me avoid buying an under illuminated blub/incorrect bulb or point me in the best direction for the correct bulb, I'd be grateful.

Lastly, would it be beneficial to get a box of them in the correct colors/kinds and re-package them as a kit for our cars?

If there's enough interest I'll pick up a larger quantity and make them available to the masses in kit form.

Cheers,
Larry
 
The specs for a 1073 bulb say it has 402 lumens and 32 candlepower.

(In fact just having cleaned the inside of each tail light assy over the weekend, I can tell you that the candlepower for each bulb is cast right into the plastic tailight housing under the lens.)

The brightest LEDs that I have seen advertised that would fit in an X1/9 taillight housing are in the range of 210 lumens for "cool white".
 
I don't know the lumens of the LEDs I posted a link to but I can tell you they appear at least 20-30% brighter than incandescent bulbs in the same housing. Most people react when I show them by saying "wow, those are bright". The tail light LEDs I'm using are much cheaper and not nearly as bright as the brake light LEDs but they still appear 5-10% brighter than the original tail light bulbs.
 
Buying White LED's for tail lights is not recomended

Putting white LED lighting through a red lens filters out a great deal of luminescence.
You should be using Red LED's with Red lenses and Amber LED's through Amber lenses.

Matthew has pointed out an excellent choice for the brake lighting.
You get what you pay for when it comes to quality LED lighting.
When I converted the Trailer Queen to LED's, I spent over $1K researching what the best choices were
for the most effective bulb replacements. It really makes a difference when you choose the proper
lamp.

If I remember correctly, I chose a lamp made with 18 "Piranha" LED elements in it. Not sure they are available, but the lamp looked a lot like this:

vled1156.jpg


Generally speaking, Velocity LED's are best of the best.
 
I just quoted the lumen value for white because it was the color with the highest lumen value.

Other colors are significantly lower.

The thing that puzzles me is why do people perceive that a lamp with half (or fewer than half) the lumens (LED) of a standard incandescent bulb is brighter than that incandescent bulb in the same position in the same tailight or stoplight? Could it have something to do with the "multiple points of light" nature of typical LED bulbs vs. the single point of light of an incandescent bulb mounted in a reflector lined tailight or stoplight assembly? Maybe LEDs require specially designed reflectors?
 
I think it is largely because of the way LEDs project light. Because they emit all of their light mostly straight out they need far fewer lumens to be an effective spot light. Incandescent waste a lot of light throwing it all over the place rather than only where it is needed. So in certain applications, such as a table lamp, LEDs won't perform as well as incandescent but in other applications, such as tail lights, they perform much better.
 
All, thanks for the input.

Based on BB’s suggestion, I found this on eBay;

http://snipurl.com/23qgh8b

$60 for 2 bulbs (red) ~32 Piranha LEDs in a bayonet lamp base (assuming 1157 is the base).

The eBay ad doesn’t note the lumens/candlepower but based on the ‘Piranha’ callout it may be similar as those suggested by ya’ll.

Further, assuming that even the higher priced USA available bulbs are still built in China; would it be foolish to buy ones from China and save over 50% or buy USA and get one for twice the cost.

Thoughts?

OK bulb for application?
China bulbs?

Cheers
 
I always thought too...

Matthew said:
I think it is largely because of the way LEDs project light. Because they emit all of their light mostly straight out they need far fewer lumens to be an effective spot light. Incandescent waste a lot of light throwing it all over the place rather than only where it is needed. So in certain applications, such as a table lamp, LEDs won't perform as well as incandescent but in other applications, such as tail lights, they perform much better.
Click to expand...

That maybe producing light at a narrow point in the spectrum may appear brighter to the human eye than incandescent, which produces a broad spectrum of light.

To extend this theory a bit further, how do they measure the lumens? In other words, at what wavelength? If it is measured at the wavelength the LED produces, it's going to be a bigger number than an incandescent light that is producing light at a lot of wavelengths. But if you add up all the wavelengths of the incandescent, it might be a bigger lumen value than the LED.

Also I wonder if human eyes see certain wavelengths better/brighter. I know this is the case with the human ear. That's why commercials always seem louder than the show you're watching. Technically it is illegal to have them be louder, so they get around this by tuning their audio to frequencies you hear better, so they only seem to be louder. On a meter, they read the same. Or so I've heard.

Pete
 
That is probably true and something I didn't think about. LEDs do look different and the light appears more "brilliant" as well as brighter.
 
My '86 uses three 1073 bulbs (stop, turn, backup) and two 67 bulbs (tail, license) per side. All of these are single contact/single filament.

1073 bulbs are more-or-less interchangeable with 1156 bulbs (also single filament, single contact).

For the rear of your X assuming it's like my '86, you'd want to order 1156-compatible rather than 1157-compatible for the stop, turn and backups.

In the front, the front marker and turn assy uses one 1157 bulb per side, which is a double contact; the marker is the low intensity filament and the turn is the high intensity filament.
 
Use 1156 Lamps for the Brake and directionals

Also, to add comment on light output, the Lumen factor of incandescent bulbs is measured with it's total light energy output.
This includes a range above and below white, although I'm uncertain exactly what the light range is.

But when you put a red filter (lens) in front of a white light, only the red light filters through. Obviously less than the total light output.

Same goes for LED's, but with LED's, the light is of a much narrower bandwidth. So using a red lens on a white LED, vs. using a red lens on a red LED of the same lumen value will show that the Red LED has a MUCH higher output when viewed through the lens.

In short, use a light source that closely matches the lens color to maximize the visual light output.

Just a note: White LED's through a red lens looks a more pink colored light.
 
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OK selection but use 1156

1157 is a dual filament bulb, not used in X1/9 brake lights.
 
Seeing the Light

I notice the LEDs referenced on eBay (by California X1/9) have an interesting design feature. As mentioned, LEDs tend to be very directional, thus the "array" mounting around a cylinder (which work in conjunction with the light housing's reflector). But the interesting feature here is the LEDs mounted on the end of that cylinder have little 'bubble' lenses on each one to further disperse the rays of light.

I've noticed a couple of terms commonly used to describe various LED designs. From what I understand, there are two typical sizes of surface mount diodes (like the ones used here); the original smaller ones, and the larger "50/50" (as I see them referred to) units. There are others, but they are in a different league. Looking at the above "Piranha" LEDs, they appear to be the same as what is often called "50/50" LEDs (i.e. the larger SMDs)? Bob or anyone have more on the nomenclature?

Regarding the "appearance" of light brightness. You've hit it on the head, the human eye is more sensitive to some frequencies of light wave length. And there is much more to it than that. So when comparing different light sources, looking at the measure of lumens alone can be a bit deceiving. There is a whole study in the science literature on this topic, it can get very complex. Really when it comes down to it, what one 'perceives' as brighter is in deed brighter...to them.
 
Pete Whitstone said:
Also I wonder if human eyes see certain wavelengths better/brighter.
Pete
Click to expand...
When light output (luminous flux) of a light source us measured is is measured over a broad spectrum, but weighted according to the eye's sensitivity to different colors. Wavelengths around green are given the most weight as this is where the eye is most sensitive.

Pete Whitstone said:
I know this is the case with the human ear. That's why commercials always seem louder than the show you're watching. Technically it is illegal to have them be louder, so they get around this by tuning their audio to frequencies you hear better, so they only seem to be louder. On a meter, they read the same. Or so I've heard.
Pete
Click to expand...
In the days of analog TV where (in most countries) the sound was FM modulated, there was a limit on the bandwidth of the modulated signal. For FM the bandwidth is roughly twice the sum of the peak deviation (which translates to amplitude of the audio signal) and the highest frequency of the audio signal. This means if you filter out the higher frequencies of your audio signal you can increase the volume and still be within the bandwidth limits for the modulated signal. This was commonly done with commercials.
 
This thread and this one inspired me to take the plunge. I just bought a selection of the LED replacements for the "always on" lights: red and amber side markers, red tail, white license plate lamps. If this goes well, then I'll move on to the reverse lights, brake, and turns. I'll post side-by-side pics when they're in.

John O.
 
I'm doing the same...

I have the brake lights and backup lights replaced with some inexpensive LED's I purchased on eBay. Waiting on some side marker lights to arrive, and an LED flasher for the amber replacement bulbs as well.

Wasn't that costly. Bulbs ranged from $2 -- $5 each and seem as bright as the incandescent bulbs I had installed.

I'm flushing and revamping my cooling system so I've got the battery disconnected and will finish the LED lights in another week or two. I'll provide more info when I get everything installed...

roadbox said:
This thread and this one inspired me to take the plunge. I just bought a selection of the LED replacements for the "always on" lights: red and amber side markers, red tail, white license plate lamps. If this goes well, then I'll move on to the reverse lights, brake, and turns. I'll post side-by-side pics when they're in.

John O.
Click to expand...
 
Dave's application

The approach Dave took in the previous post (using flat circuit boards with many surface-mount LEDs) is another good way to do it. This is the method used by most of the companies that offer custom built (application specific) LED replacements. It allows more LEDs to be placed within the space available, and therefore a greater light source. Keep in mind, it is best to use LEDs of the same color as the lens they will shine through. So each circuit board should be color matched for the section of the light housing it goes in (it might be difficult to find pre-made boards in specific colors, and in the sizes needed). Also be aware, this approach basically eliminates the reflectors, making the lights all point straight in one direction. In some applications this may reduce the visibility from off angles, especially considering the directional nature of LEDs. However this may not be a concern (depending on the function of each light), and it will typically yield a brighter light from the straight-on view (which can be a real plus).
Dave did a very nice job installing his.
 
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