Brake line troubles! *56k warning large image files*

[abec]

Alright well I had some brake issues just before pulling my motor, unfortunately I was unable to confirm the issue until getting pressure in my brakes, and that meant pulling the pedal box and replacing a bad brake master, and I wanted to replace the clutch master at the same time. So I had to wait until I had everything ready.

Well I did, got pressure in the brakes a few nights ago. Sure enough I go out this morning and there is a puddle of brake fluid under the right rear brake.

Now I had called up Earls and was assured that their brake lines don't fail after only 5-6 miles of driving as they are pre tested up to some magical pressure (yea... I know its magic so it can't fail). Though being that I don't believe in magic I decided to do a simple test once I got the brakes pressurized again.

So Inspired by one of my elementary school science lessons I decided to test the line myself. What I did is take a strip of colored paper with lined texture that I use for graphic design, I cut a strip out and placed it right near the collar of the lower fitting where I believe it has failed. and here are the results. Bare with me, i left the files unedited.

Here is the strip of paper (dry) used, and the brake line in question.

Placing the paper on the line, still dry.

moments later, already starting to suck up brake fluid

less then 30 seconds, and some more fluid being absorbed.

1 minute in and its obvious the lines did indeed fail

Hopefully I can get this dealt with shortly as my engine is being finished up this week so that when I have my new engine in, I can actually use the brakes.

 

[Rupunzell]

These Brake Lines CAN Fail

If there is a twist in the line post installation or if the line is twisted during installation, they can and will fail. This holds true for all line of this type. It is also very possible that the rear line is defective as delivered.

Another possibility is the copper crush /sealing washer is not sealing. Where these new when the lines were replaced or annealed during line replacement? Dirt, pitted, or rough spots on the sealing surfaces can easily cause leaks too.

 

[bbrown]

How much twist?

I have these lines on the front & rear of my X... So far, so good but if you say twisting will cause them to leak 'eventually', does that make these a poor choice for the front?

 

[abec]

I had contacted vicks after the line initial failure, and after trying to deal directly w/ Earls. Vicks sent out some new copper washers, as it seemed much more likely that they would fail then the line itself. Though as it turns out I won the brake line lottery.

I talked to Vicks this morning and showed them the photo's, I will be sending in my failed line and they will be sending me out a new one. I have to say our online vendors are second to none :worship::worship::worship::italia:

 

[abec]

I have these lines on the front & rear of my X... So far, so good but if you say twisting will cause them to leak 'eventually', does that make these a poor choice for the front?

The twisting that takes place during normal use is not an issue. If you installed them wrong and began trying to screw in the bottom after you tightened down the top, then you would end up twisting the line and damaging the Teflon inside.

So If yours are good, then there is no need to worry. Now it is smart to replace your lines more often then you would with rubber hoses. This is because you cannot inspect a steel braided line, so its better to just replace it then wait for a failure.

I did not make this post to scare anyone from buying these brake lines, Its very rare that this kind of failure happens and I just wanted to share what happened. I will indeed be running Earls steel braided brake lines front and back when I get my replacement line, I'll update later on my impressions of them when functioning properly.

 

[Rupunzell]

No, "twisting" in service is NOT the problem. The problem is excessive twisting the line during installation. If one were to draw a straight line with a 'sharpie' marker and ruler between the two fittings, this can be used as a twist gauge. If the line remains straight, not problem, if the line becomes twisted, there is a problem. If one were to observe this line over the range of suspension movements, the line remains pretty much straight.

Note the front lines use a banjo fitting to prevent line twist and FIAT has a banjo bolt retainer to prevent the banjo bolt from getting loose.. The FIAT engineers were thinking of safety and what could go wrong here and how to prevent problems.

This style of fluid line is used in everything from industrial hardware to space craft. They are reliable and failures are rare, but do happen as they are mortal and not "perfect".

I have these lines on the front & rear of my X... So far, so good but if you say twisting will cause them to leak 'eventually', does that make these a poor choice for the front?