Confused in Iowa... Another Timing thread

S

sonosml

IA_Mike
Hello, I'm pretty new to XWeb, I've visited randomly over the summer. I'm not new to Fiats. I've had my first spider since 1986, added #2 in 2009, then added the X1/9 as a father son project this past year. It sat for most of the summer and now we are working on it. The car had sat "properly stored" for 8 years prior to us. I had the motor running when in Feb when I got it home. Then it sat, we had it running about 4 months ago and it sat. I told my son we could start working on it. Well I came home from work and he proudly announced he changed the spark plugs and wires. I yelled NOOOooooo. He swears he changed the wires one at a time. Then I made a major rookie mistake, I popped the timing belt off WITHOUT lining up the timing marks. Well I had trouble with getting the replacement belt on and I believe the cam gear moved a tooth or two. I figured 1 or 2 teeth it should be ok to rotate the engine to the timing mark on the crank (without colliding pistons and valves). So I rotated by hand using a wrench on the crank. slowly. Never felt any thumps or hesistations. So I lined up the timing mark on the crank, but according the the haynes manual, I should have a dimple mark on the pulley that should line up with the "thingie" on the snail motor mount. My pulley didn't have that I have a groove on the back side of the pulley and the arrow on the sheild that holds the Timing cover. But I'm suppose to have a 1300, from what I read here, those marks are suppose to be on the 1500's. My block castings have 128.... in the them, so doesn't that mean I have a 1300 block. Also the tensioner bearing I got from Vicks is too big. The belt won't fit, so I had to put the old bearing (smaller in diameter) back on. Vicks told me the 1300 has the larger bearing and the 1500 has the smaller bearing. Hum?? While rotating I don't think I collided anything, I still have compression in the 125-130 range. The car won't start now, backfires thru the carb randomly. I cleaned the carb.
1) Do I have a 1300 or 1500 block? How do I tell
2) If I have a 1300 block, do I have 1500 Pulleys on the 1300?
3) What marks should I line up with? My cam pulley has a spot for the air pump belt and the book doesn't show that on the 1300 pulley.
4) I know firing order is 1-3-4-2, I know cyl next to timing belt is 1 and counts right to left, standing at the back of the car looking forward. I know dist rotor rotates clockwise. So if looking down from the top standing at the back of the car, leaning over the motor and the dist is a clock. Which position is 1-3-4-2? My guess is #1 is somewhere about the 10 O'clock position, 3 * the 2 O'clock etc... am I right?
5) I think my cap may be bad. 2 possible dist choices. How do I tell which one I have and which style cap goes with each.

If none of this makes any sense, I'll try and post some pictures. But I read the other timing threads and wasn't sure I understood the #1 vs. #4 thing. I'm average to just above average mechanic, but I'm getting Danika Patrick knocking on my door to be part of her pit crew! Thanks in advance for any help....
 
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smaller tensioner would indicate 1500.

#1 is closet to #1 cyl.. #4 is next to bulkhead. But, if you did the belt without checking the idler gear, chances are good that the distributor is way out of time...
 
Well that would make a ton of sense, I didn't realize the other "toothed" pulley ran the dist. Oh, yeah as I was cuss'ing and swearing trying to get the belt on that other pulley got spun several times. So is this were that the whole #1/#4 thing comes into play? I suppose I'll have to pull the dist and reset it to point at one of of the spots on the cap, Which one (#1 or #4) and where is that on the dist using a clock as a reference point? I'm still pretty sure I have a 1300 block but suspect someone switch out the pulleys. My block has all the stampings of a 1300. Well best I can tell. Thanks for telling me what that other pulley is, I just assumed the dist ran off a gear on the crank. It all makes sense now.
 
mark on the idler gear?

One more thing, is there a mark on the Idler gear I should have kept track of. I saw nothing about it in the book. Mike
 
This great illustration has been posted here before (I found it in this post by jharrellh) :

firing_order.jpg


Also, keep in mind that with the cam pulley and crank pulley both aligned with their respective marks, the distributor rotor should point to the contact for cylinder #4.

When you are ready to put a timing light on it, you can hook the pickup to the plug wire for #1 or #4, makes no difference.
 
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awesome

that is an awesome pictorial diagram. It makes the firing order look wrong. I'll have to study the picture more to be sure, Thanks. Keep the suggestions coming.
 
I did the same thing earlier in the summer, so you aren't alone. :wall: Remember that the cam, crank, and distributor will all be lined up properly every 2 turns of the crank. Get the cam and crank marks lined up and spin the auxiliary pulley until the rotor is pointing in about the right direction (plug 4). Put it all back together and try to start it. If it won't run, turn the crank over until everything is lined up again and skip a tooth of the belt on the aux pulley one way or the other to get the rotor pointed more in the right spot. Keep doing this until you find the spot on the belt where the engine runs the best. Then continue with ignition timing. Time consuming, but it works.
BTW, I used the previously posted picture before and it was so useful that I downloaded it and put it in my "FIAT" on my PC.
 
IT Works!

Thanks to all. I loosened the belt today and popped the cap off. I slipped the belt on that idler pulley and lined up the rotor to point to number 4. got it all back together and POOF! It fired and ran. I don't have the coolant system completely back together so I only ran it for a short bit. It ran pretty good. So, when I get the coolant system complete, I will fine tune the timing and adjust the newly cleaned carb!

Again, thanks for the help!
 
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