Custom Brake Master Cylinder For Bigger Calipers

[DanielForest]

I took another minute to do a little more searching. RockAuto only carries one of the components on the list. I imagine it will be the same for most other US based suppliers.

The total parts cost for the list from my European supplier varies widely depending upon what brands you choose. Looking at brands I'm familiar with and would consider acceptable, but not the more expensive ones, the total without shipping is $304. As I said previously shipping will be considerable due to the weight.

However I missed this comment in the original post earlier:
"The tricky part in sourcing are the carriers for the calipers. I got my front brake calipers + carriers from the donor car (Stilo 1.8 16v) that I bought for the engine/transmission swap. I sourced the rear brake calipers + carriers (FIAT 500 (312) 1.2 l front calipers) from a wrecker."

That pretty much rules out those of us in the US. Even the 500 items are different for our market compared to his. So you would have to source used parts from Europe and ship them.

I'm also guessing the 257 mm vented discs will not fit under 13" wheels. The Prima brakes from Vic's are 239 mm size and they are fitttins MOST 13" wheels.

And looking at @My1stCar pictures at the race track https://xwebforums.com/forum/index....to-your-x1-9-today.10638/page-299#post-439435
he doesn't look like still wearing 13" wheels...

 

[Rupunzell]

Give up the 13" wheels. Problem today with 13" wheels are tires, performance street tires are about nil.. There are good R-compound and real race tires in 13".. otherwise the common 13" tire is Meh... 13" wheel limits brake rotor & brake caliper choices and more..

Problem here, visual appearance/orginality of the exxe is often the prime consideration, not what works proper.

14" is not that much better, 15" is slightly better.

Prime problem here is the need for a tire/wheel combo of about 22.5" diameter which is what the suspension is designed for.. Sure plenty have upped the tire/wheel diameter.. for looks, trading off proper suspension behavior/performance. Same as lowering the front to "rake" the look of the exxe, which the suspension/chassis is not designed for.


Bernice

 

[My1stCar]

I took another minute to do a little more searching. RockAuto only carries one of the components on the list. I imagine it will be the same for most other US based suppliers.

The total parts cost for the list from my European supplier varies widely depending upon what brands you choose. Looking at brands I'm familiar with and would consider acceptable, but not the more expensive ones, the total without shipping is $304. As I said previously shipping will be considerable due to the weight.

However I missed this comment in the original post earlier:
"The tricky part in sourcing are the carriers for the calipers. I got my front brake calipers + carriers from the donor car (Stilo 1.8 16v) that I bought for the engine/transmission swap. I sourced the rear brake calipers + carriers (FIAT 500 (312) 1.2 l front calipers) from a wrecker."

That pretty much rules out those of us in the US. Even the 500 items are different for our market compared to his. So you would have to source used parts from Europe and ship them.

I can't be sure, but I think the 500 1.2 four cylinder has the same wheel carrier/hub assembly, so chances are that the caliper carriers and calipers should be available as 2nd hand (wrecker) parts too.

I believe @TonyK also found the Abarth calipers (and carriers) fitted the X, I assumed they were the same as the European version

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I can't be sure, but I think the 500 1.2 four cylinder has the same wheel carrier/hub assembly, so chances are that the caliper carriers and calipers should be available as 2nd hand (wrecker) parts too.

I believe @TonyK also found the Abarth calipers (and carriers) fitted the X, I assumed they were the same as the European version

As far as I understand, the 500 models in the USA is very different from over there in Europe. Ours are made in Mexico I believe, and things like brakes are completely different. So using US sourced parts may not work. That being said, you are correct that Tony found the US spec Abarth 500 carriers work with US spec 500 front brake calipers on the front of the X. However I believe that combination also used a different size rotor than your setup.

 

[My1stCar]

Give up the 13" wheels. Problem today with 13" wheels are tires, performance street tires are about nil.. There are good R-compound and real race tires in 13".. otherwise the common 13" tire is Meh... 13" wheel limits brake rotor & brake caliper choices and more..

Problem here, visual appearance/orginality of the exxe is often the prime consideration, not what works proper.

14" is not that much better, 15" is slightly better.

Prime problem here is the need for a tire/wheel combo of about 22.5" diameter which is what the suspension is designed for.. Sure plenty have upped the tire/wheel diameter.. for looks, trading off proper suspension behavior/performance. Same as lowering the front to "rake" the look of the exxe, which the suspension/chassis is not designed for.


Bernice

Indeed as @DanielForest suspected, the 257 mm discs do not fit under 13 inch wheels.

I briefly ran the 16x7 inch rims that came on the Stilo donor car, but ended up sourcing 2nd hand 15x5.5 inch Fiat Marea rims from Italy, with the same 7 spoke design.

That was mainly to fit NS2R tires in an overall diameter close to stock, as many reported these to be a good price/performance semi-slick that still works acceptably in the wet (that I can now confirm), and also has acceptable wear for normal road use (they are reportedly loud, but that I can't hear in the X).

It was definitly also because the 16x7 looked too big and wide. The 15x5.5 wheel/tire is about 1.5 kg lighter per wheel (the Stilo is a much heavier car then a Marea, so the rims are too sturdy). That's a difference I can feel.

 

[My1stCar]

As far as I understand, the 500 models in the USA is very different from over there in Europe. Ours are made in Mexico I believe, and things like brakes are completely different. So using US sourced parts may not work. That being said, you are correct that Tony found the US spec Abarth 500 carriers work with US spec 500 front brake calipers on the front of the X. However I believe that combination also used a different size rotor than your setup.

Would you be able to find out dimensions of the US spec brakes? (distance between carrier bolts, dimensions of the 500 disc, offset etc.) I could do some cross-checks if anyone's interested.

p.s. My company worked on the airbag systems for both the EU and US versions, that are indeed different, as the knee bolster glovebox for example. But the body in white is the same, hence my assumption the rest of the hardware being also the same, mainly for cost reasons.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Would you be able to find out dimensions of the US spec brakes? (distance between carrier bolts, dimensions of the 500 disc, offset etc.) I could do some cross-checks if anyone's interested.

p.s. My company worked on the airbag systems for both the EU and US versions, that are indeed different, as the knee bolster glovebox for example. But the body in white is the same, hence my assumption the rest of the hardware being also the same, mainly for cost reasons.

Unfortunately I won't be able to help with specific data as I don't have a 500. My earlier comments are from previous discussions on this forum about brake upgrades for the X. Tony's discovery of US spec Abarth brakes fitting the X prompted a lot of interest in what could be done, including finding proportionally sized rear upgrades to go along with the large fronts. So we searched a lot of Fiat part numbers to see what would cross over. That's when I learned about the US 500 being different....at least in terms of the brakes.

The lack of various Fiat models in the US has been an issue in prior examples. For instance utilizing other components that would fit the X IF we could get them. If they are from European models then it becomes difficult, and quite costly, to source those components here.

 

[DanielForest]

Give up the 13" wheels. Problem today with 13" wheels are tires, performance street tires are about nil.. There are good R-compound and real race tires in 13".. otherwise the common 13" tire is Meh... 13" wheel limits brake rotor & brake caliper choices and more..

Problem here, visual appearance/orginality of the exxe is often the prime consideration, not what works proper.

14" is not that much better, 15" is slightly better.

Prime problem here is the need for a tire/wheel combo of about 22.5" diameter which is what the suspension is designed for.. Sure plenty have upped the tire/wheel diameter.. for looks, trading off proper suspension behavior/performance. Same as lowering the front to "rake" the look of the exxe, which the suspension/chassis is not designed for.


Bernice

You are right, Bernice. It's been a decade or two since performance street tires in 13" are disapearing. But even before that I was already using R-compound on the street. So I'm ok on that side. And, as you said, period correct 15" wheels are difficult to find except a few exceptions.

Otherwise, I'm willing to use 15" wheels and tires for racing, but I want to be able to switch to 13" wheels for street use. I know I'm making things difficult for me on the available braking upgrades,

And getting older (aren't we all?) I love being able to carry a tire and wheel 13" combo under each arm instead of rolling a 15" wheel on the ground because it's too heavy.

 

[SuperTopo]

You are right, Bernice. It's been a decade or two since performance street tires in 13" are disapearing. But even before that I was already using R-compound on the street. So I'm ok on that side. And, as you said, period correct 15" wheels are difficult to find except a few exceptions.

Otherwise, I'm willing to use 15" wheels and tires for racing, but I want to be able to switch to 13" wheels for street use. I know I'm making things difficult for me on the available braking upgrades,

And getting older (aren't we all?) I love being able to carry a tire and wheel 13" combo under each arm instead of rolling a 15" wheel on the ground because it's too heavy.

I'm glad no one was watching me the first time I tried to install the 19" wheels on my Giulia. Man those things are heavy!