FI 1500 engine and head in a 76

[karhawk]

What should I be concerned about installing a 1500 X19 FI engine in a 76 X,
I will use a 34 datr carb and the 76 intake maniifold or would the 74 manifold be better. I do have the ability to port match the 76. We will use the 4 speed trans and all smog equipt will be deleted. Only other engine mods at this time will be to shave the head for a bump in compression, if I leave the block alone how much should be taken from the head? I will use the original distributor and add a pertronix unit since it came with the car, should the vaccum advance hooked up or disconnected like we did with our 74 128?

Thanks

Chris
Oakland, CA.

 

[Black-Tooth]

Welcome Chris, ONE paragraph, MANY questions...

What should I be concerned about installing a 1500 X19 FI engine in a 76 X,

Dunno really, probably lower compression... but even if the number of head bolts don't match... it still can probably be used. Usually its the otherway around for higher compression. Head could be milled I guess... but ya really need to have DONE THIS KINDA THING BEFORE to know what the advantages/consequences are.

I will use a 34 datr carb and the 76 intake maniifold or would the 74 manifold be better. I do have the ability to port match the 76.

Either should work... port matching is always a plus.

We will use the 4 speed trans and all smog equipt will be deleted.

Trans is no biggie as its made for the block... Smog stuff deleted... can be a problem if yur gonna register it for the street.

Only other engine mods at this time will be to shave the head for a bump in compression, if I leave the block alone how much should be taken from the head?

As I stated earlier... EXPEREINCE NEEDED. John Edwards in Costa Mesa, Matt Brannon in Ohio, or Chris Obert in Santa Cruz could better answer these questions. Page them here and ask for phone numbers.

I will use the original distributor and add a pertronix unit since it came with the car, should the vaccum advance hooked up or disconnected like we did with our 74 128?

If this is to be used for racing... no vacuum advance is prefered... just the opposite for street driving.

Thanks

Yur welcome... hope this helps...

Tony

 

[karhawk]

1500 engine in the 1300 76 X

Thanks Tony

What should I be concerned about installing a 1500 X19 FI engine in a 76 X,

Dunno really, probably lower compression... but even if the number of head bolts don't match... it still can probably be used. Usually its the otherway around for higher compression. Head could be milled I guess... but ya really need to have DONE THIS KINDA THING BEFORE to know what the advantages/consequences are.

I have done this stuff before just need a baseline, the 1500 will go in as a unit, NOT putting the 1300 head on a 1500 block. Don't care about the emissions stuff I will deal with that. I was mainly concerned about all the ancillary stuff fitting on properly, manifolds, brackets etc. Currently we have 3 running a driving Fiats, had 4 before I toasted the 903 engine in the 600. My only experience with the SOHC engine is my daughter's 128 SL, which shortly will have a big valve head, warmed up cam and twin 36 DCNF's on a PBS manifold installed.
Our little blog here: http://scratchybottom.blogspot.com/
We just picked up this X for my son in law so he can get behind this Fiat obsession Mayuko and I have.

Chris
Oakland, Ca.

PS
I will look through the archives to find out about shaving the head and or block to bump the compression a little.

 

[Black-Tooth]

Welp... then you've got some background...

The 1500 block is a bit taller overall (hence the taller cover in '79 and later) so if you use a 1500 DOWNPIPE that might need to be modified. You'll probably want to make a custom free flow exhaust system anyway...

Alas... all the other stuff should work...

Son-in-law huh... I have one of those also... HA!

 

[EricH]

An easy and common swap

In fact, you're the third or so person to bring it up in the past week or so. You'll find a bunch of us who have already replaced 1300 motors with 1500 if you search the archives here, back at the old xweb, and the best-of wiki. I've done two, one keeping the four-speed and the other going to a five-speed as well.

Keeping the four-speed makes it really easy. You just have to deal with the slightly taller block and possible exhaust fitment issues - depending on your choice of exhaust and manifold you might need a spacer.

I don't know how much the 34 DATR will buy you over the 32DATRA that came with your '76 if you keep the stock 10/54 us cam (euro cars used the 34, but also a 24/68 cam), but someone here has tried it and can tell you.

 

[Black-Tooth]

Hey... I mis-read this the first time...

... about the head and the block... and now re-reading it for the 3rd time I see it!

WOW... getting old is a bitch!

HA!

 

[karhawk]

Thanks!

Sounds pretty straight forward, I will change the exhaust manifold to a custom one or the 4-2 mani from the 74, and it seems like I should match the 34 datr with a euro cam.

Chris
Oakland, Ca.

 

[mmudge]

Carbs

You might consider the 34 DMTR also.

Mudge

 

[EricH]

And more carbs

You might consider the 34 DMTR also.

Or the 34 DAT... 34 DAT/DATR/DMTR are all basically the same carb, except that the DATR and DAT are water-choke and the DMTR is a manual choke. This makes the DMTR an especially good fit for a '74 which has a manual choke lever already (the stock carb on the '74 was a 32 DMTR in europe and a 32 DMTRA in the US). On anything but a '74, you'll have to rig up a choke cable (or just live without a choke) if you go with the DMTR.

A few years back Bruce of Bruce's Parts Bin (www.fiatparts.com) had a few new, still in box, 34 DATs available.

The stock Euro jetting for the 34 is in the xweb wiki, would be a good place to start.

Some of the 34 DMTRs floating around are set up with the fuel inlet and outlet pointing down instead of sideways, and they're an awkward fit against the cambox (this happens because all they're all basicallythe same carb, only the 34 DATR was original equipment on an X). Fortunately the top cover from a 32 DATRA/DMTRA is bolt-on.

Whichever carb you go with, check the venturi diameter as well - this is one of the swappable pieces like the jets in these carbs, so just because you have a 34 D*T* car, you can't assume that you have the right venturies. Peirce Manifolds sells all teh jets, venturis, and all the other tunable components.