<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]HELP! - Electrical Gremlins Strike (Hide your wife and kids!)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999 at 11:47 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Scott [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->OK Guys -
I have realized why it is not a great idea to nose around the "X" all the time trying to fix things...you always find something else to fix! I love it though - lots of fun! Here is the topic:
Car has often had a "electrical" smell to it - (as if a wire, etc. is burning). Didn't think much of it at first. Well I have been going thorugh the car checking connections and tightening grounds, etc. When I finished, the car is as dead as a doornail. I found if I wiggled some of the harnesses over in the relay/fuse panel area, I could sometimes get the relays and panel lights to kick in (via the ignition switch), but then when I tried to crank the car it would die again. Well I dropped the relay box and found the problem. At the front left corner of the panel (in front of the relay area), there is a small black connector box with large gauge wires running into it. There is a large (14 ga.?) brown wire and then two smaller (16ga.?) wires (one red and one brown). The connectors that slip on and part of this little black box is FRIED! I got it all apart, but it is shot. I think the two smaller wires run to the ignition switch (another story in itself - it runs off of a "Master" brand padlock key!), but I am not sure where the larger brown wire leads. I thought battery, but there are a red and brown wire there as well that look smaller. I am trying to figure out where they all go now. Any help? The whole set-up looks easy enough to fix, but what would cause this problem in the first place? Why would the connectors in the box melt like that? What other things might I need to look for in repairing this problem?
Thanks in advance,
Scott
'86 Bertone<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Gilles[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Deja-Vu...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999, 12:25 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Oops! Anyway
Hi Scott:
Reading your posting send me back in time about four weeks.
The small brown plastic thing that houses the wires you are talking about also melted on my car on the inside, it seems that once the conectors got a bit corroded it shorted out the hole thing.
The car was completely dead (I panic and a kind neighbor brought his electric troubleshooting knowledge, and got me out of trouble after ten minutes)
The big brown cable brings power from the battery. I removed from my parts car the same plastic square box and replaced the melted one, also I had to replace the terminal from the big wire.
But if you look at the thing (brown square thing) It really does not have any specific function other than supply electricity to the other two smaller wires, so if you don't have a spare "conector box" you can simply conect directly the three wires, being sure to properly insulate the hole thing afterwards.
After I fix mine everything got back to normal, Good luck.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My '75 has this problem too<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999, 2:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
It is a relatively common thing to happen, not just to our X1/9s, but with many of the '80s and older Fiats. When these connectors get corroded or just plain old, they increase in resistance to the point where things like this start to happen. Not with the entire system, but specifically with these wires you mention.
The terminals at fuse panel are likely places for this to happen, and the other most likely place to have this occur is inside the steering column at the multi-terminal plug for the ignition switch. The brown wire there is fried on my '75 as well as in the fuse panel connection.
If you discover this is a problem with your X, it is easy enough to cut out the bad wire ends (there is usually enough slack in the wire that you won't need to extend it) and to replace with new connectors. Just make sure to use connectors that can take the current load of the larger gauge wires (ie: don't use the small ones!)
And if your car has the fried wire behind the fuse block, I would then be sure to examine the wires at the ignition switch as well. If one area has taken damage, they probably both have. Once you repair these it usually won't happen again (at least not for another 20 years!)
People comment on the older Fiats' poor electricals, but really I think that these cars deserve more credit considering how long those wires held up already!
Peace, -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Scott[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999, 8:33 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks guys for your input on this! On my car only the terminal block was fried. The wire itself seems to be ok (Cross the fingers)! I actually solved another problem with low voltage and dim lights as well. I went back out to try and get the car started to get it over to a friend's garage to replace radiator hoses and CV boots, and so I cleaned out the old fried terminal block enough to get the wires re-connected to see if the car would even start...boy did it ever! All of the lights are MUCH brighter now (even the low beams are halfway decent!) so when this new little terminal block comes in later this week, I will be in good shape I believe! Thanks again for your help, Mac and Gilles!
Scott
'86 Bertone<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "L";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Lalo"); // --> </SCRIPT>Lalo <NOSCRIPT> Lalo </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Join the Club<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 1999, 7:01 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Welcome to the overheated connector club.
I posted several tips on this problem in the past on the Mirafiori.com forum, so I'll just summarize here.
Mac is right on the money, this does affect most Fiats, not just X1/9's. I recommend that as a general rule, BOTH the ignition switch and fuse box connections should be checked regularly for this condition. The tell-tale signs are the white plastic connectors not being white anymore. They turn brown, and even black in severe cases, when overheating.
The brown wire goes directly from the battery to the ignition switch and to the fuse box. Age and corrosion are your enemies here. You MUST replace the connectors and trim about 1" of wire back from the connector, you'll find that piece of wire to be toast, most of the time if you strip it you'll find corrosion in there.
Lastly, whenever I hear complaints about charging problems this is the first thing I recommend to check. As you have discovered, your charging system is alive again as is witnessed by your brighter headlights. The brown wire powers EVERYTHING in your car, so if the connections are corroding and overheating you can expect your electrical system be functioning at some level less than 100%.
Lalo
'74 X1/9 1500cc FI, 5-spd, PBS Big Valve Head, 265 degree cam, etc...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999 at 11:47 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Scott [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->OK Guys -
I have realized why it is not a great idea to nose around the "X" all the time trying to fix things...you always find something else to fix! I love it though - lots of fun! Here is the topic:
Car has often had a "electrical" smell to it - (as if a wire, etc. is burning). Didn't think much of it at first. Well I have been going thorugh the car checking connections and tightening grounds, etc. When I finished, the car is as dead as a doornail. I found if I wiggled some of the harnesses over in the relay/fuse panel area, I could sometimes get the relays and panel lights to kick in (via the ignition switch), but then when I tried to crank the car it would die again. Well I dropped the relay box and found the problem. At the front left corner of the panel (in front of the relay area), there is a small black connector box with large gauge wires running into it. There is a large (14 ga.?) brown wire and then two smaller (16ga.?) wires (one red and one brown). The connectors that slip on and part of this little black box is FRIED! I got it all apart, but it is shot. I think the two smaller wires run to the ignition switch (another story in itself - it runs off of a "Master" brand padlock key!), but I am not sure where the larger brown wire leads. I thought battery, but there are a red and brown wire there as well that look smaller. I am trying to figure out where they all go now. Any help? The whole set-up looks easy enough to fix, but what would cause this problem in the first place? Why would the connectors in the box melt like that? What other things might I need to look for in repairing this problem?
Thanks in advance,
Scott
'86 Bertone<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Deja-Vu...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999, 12:25 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Oops! Anyway
Hi Scott:
Reading your posting send me back in time about four weeks.
The small brown plastic thing that houses the wires you are talking about also melted on my car on the inside, it seems that once the conectors got a bit corroded it shorted out the hole thing.
The car was completely dead (I panic and a kind neighbor brought his electric troubleshooting knowledge, and got me out of trouble after ten minutes)
The big brown cable brings power from the battery. I removed from my parts car the same plastic square box and replaced the melted one, also I had to replace the terminal from the big wire.
But if you look at the thing (brown square thing) It really does not have any specific function other than supply electricity to the other two smaller wires, so if you don't have a spare "conector box" you can simply conect directly the three wires, being sure to properly insulate the hole thing afterwards.
After I fix mine everything got back to normal, Good luck.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My '75 has this problem too<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999, 2:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
It is a relatively common thing to happen, not just to our X1/9s, but with many of the '80s and older Fiats. When these connectors get corroded or just plain old, they increase in resistance to the point where things like this start to happen. Not with the entire system, but specifically with these wires you mention.
The terminals at fuse panel are likely places for this to happen, and the other most likely place to have this occur is inside the steering column at the multi-terminal plug for the ignition switch. The brown wire there is fried on my '75 as well as in the fuse panel connection.
If you discover this is a problem with your X, it is easy enough to cut out the bad wire ends (there is usually enough slack in the wire that you won't need to extend it) and to replace with new connectors. Just make sure to use connectors that can take the current load of the larger gauge wires (ie: don't use the small ones!)
And if your car has the fried wire behind the fuse block, I would then be sure to examine the wires at the ignition switch as well. If one area has taken damage, they probably both have. Once you repair these it usually won't happen again (at least not for another 20 years!)
People comment on the older Fiats' poor electricals, but really I think that these cars deserve more credit considering how long those wires held up already!
Peace, -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 27 1999, 8:33 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks guys for your input on this! On my car only the terminal block was fried. The wire itself seems to be ok (Cross the fingers)! I actually solved another problem with low voltage and dim lights as well. I went back out to try and get the car started to get it over to a friend's garage to replace radiator hoses and CV boots, and so I cleaned out the old fried terminal block enough to get the wires re-connected to see if the car would even start...boy did it ever! All of the lights are MUCH brighter now (even the low beams are halfway decent!) so when this new little terminal block comes in later this week, I will be in good shape I believe! Thanks again for your help, Mac and Gilles!
Scott
'86 Bertone<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Join the Club<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 28 1999, 7:01 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Welcome to the overheated connector club.
I posted several tips on this problem in the past on the Mirafiori.com forum, so I'll just summarize here.
Mac is right on the money, this does affect most Fiats, not just X1/9's. I recommend that as a general rule, BOTH the ignition switch and fuse box connections should be checked regularly for this condition. The tell-tale signs are the white plastic connectors not being white anymore. They turn brown, and even black in severe cases, when overheating.
The brown wire goes directly from the battery to the ignition switch and to the fuse box. Age and corrosion are your enemies here. You MUST replace the connectors and trim about 1" of wire back from the connector, you'll find that piece of wire to be toast, most of the time if you strip it you'll find corrosion in there.
Lastly, whenever I hear complaints about charging problems this is the first thing I recommend to check. As you have discovered, your charging system is alive again as is witnessed by your brighter headlights. The brown wire powers EVERYTHING in your car, so if the connections are corroding and overheating you can expect your electrical system be functioning at some level less than 100%.
Lalo
'74 X1/9 1500cc FI, 5-spd, PBS Big Valve Head, 265 degree cam, etc...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]