Help needed - overheating.
- Thread starter ezitag
- Start date
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
MAX... you are right...
When I read he list I SAW the word PIPES but THOUGHT it was HOSES. I gemy eyes checked on December 9th... mabe I oughtta move the appointment up!
BUT... the premise is still the same. Kevin shows a photo of the test kit in his response... and it will pressurise EVERYTHING. The pipes, radiator, engine, heater core... YOU WILL FIND a LEAK if there is one... and also WATCH the guage and mkake sure the pressure holds!
I usually test to 20 pounds or more in REAL cars, and about 16 in this car.
If you fnd NO leaks, then I would look for these two FAR REACHING possibilities:
1. An obstruction in the coolant pipes... Remove radiator hoses from both ends, force a water hose and house pressure through them and see what comes out.
2. The water pump vanes... remove and inspect...
3. Try PRESSURE flushing the engine block with a hose also... I have never done this, but I am OUT OF IDEAS!
I know, I know... far reaching... Good luck and do ell us what ya find!
When I read he list I SAW the word PIPES but THOUGHT it was HOSES. I gemy eyes checked on December 9th... mabe I oughtta move the appointment up!
BUT... the premise is still the same. Kevin shows a photo of the test kit in his response... and it will pressurise EVERYTHING. The pipes, radiator, engine, heater core... YOU WILL FIND a LEAK if there is one... and also WATCH the guage and mkake sure the pressure holds!
I usually test to 20 pounds or more in REAL cars, and about 16 in this car.
If you fnd NO leaks, then I would look for these two FAR REACHING possibilities:
1. An obstruction in the coolant pipes... Remove radiator hoses from both ends, force a water hose and house pressure through them and see what comes out.
2. The water pump vanes... remove and inspect...
3. Try PRESSURE flushing the engine block with a hose also... I have never done this, but I am OUT OF IDEAS!
I know, I know... far reaching... Good luck and do ell us what ya find!
Chris Obert
autocrosser, X driver
Keven is right, this is one of the "often used" tools in my box. If I am into the cooling system for any reason, other than to confirm the radiator cap is not broken & the radiator is full, this thing gets installed.
Has a friend's 1975 X pumped up to 16 PSI & up on the rack for about 6 hours today confirming it would hold it without bleeding down. It did, and as soon as I am done with the posts I am off for a test drive.
A BIG THANKS TO ALL
Thanks so much for all your help.
Lachlan and I have some pressure testing to do.
And a cap to inspect.
I also find it interesting that no-one mentioned my query about an air lock that floats around the pipes. Is this because I don't know what I'm talking about LOL? Also I remember reading some-where that a guy jacked the end of his car up as high as he could get it and left it there for a month. His theory was gravity would eventually force the air out.
I know I'm stretching but this problem has cost me thousands and the only reason I've not sold the car or junked it is because it's such a nice X.
Thanks so much for all your help.
Lachlan and I have some pressure testing to do.
And a cap to inspect.
I also find it interesting that no-one mentioned my query about an air lock that floats around the pipes. Is this because I don't know what I'm talking about LOL? Also I remember reading some-where that a guy jacked the end of his car up as high as he could get it and left it there for a month. His theory was gravity would eventually force the air out.
I know I'm stretching but this problem has cost me thousands and the only reason I've not sold the car or junked it is because it's such a nice X.
dcioccarelli
Dominic Cioccarelli
Radiator bled?
I'm assuming that the radiator has been bled thoroughly? There is a Wiki page on it:
http://xwebforums.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cooling
Cheers,
Dom.
I'm assuming that the radiator has been bled thoroughly? There is a Wiki page on it:
http://xwebforums.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cooling
Cheers,
Dom.
Last edited by a moderator:
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Well... "air lock" doesn't...
... usually appear in a LOW area like the pipes... but HIGH, like in the top of the radiator. Hence, that is why there is bleed valve in the top of the radiator.
As for someone jacking up a car and waiting for a month... I can cite at least TWO things wrong with that person... but I try to be a gentleman... HA!
Nice looking ride, btw... we'll be waitng for your results!
... usually appear in a LOW area like the pipes... but HIGH, like in the top of the radiator. Hence, that is why there is bleed valve in the top of the radiator.
As for someone jacking up a car and waiting for a month... I can cite at least TWO things wrong with that person... but I try to be a gentleman... HA!
Nice looking ride, btw... we'll be waitng for your results!
I responded to this question in my post on how to bleed the system.
BTW: GOOD LOOKING x
One current cause,,
you say seems to happen when climbing a long hill. At what r.p.m. do you run it at. I always feel there's nothing worse on a motor than to lug it. One local mountain I sometimes go up is quite steep. I keep it at about 5,000 r.p.m. to keep more flow through the rad, and at the max h.p. and torque range, it's never heated doing this. This is only about a ? 3-4 mile climb. It could be a factor.
you say seems to happen when climbing a long hill. At what r.p.m. do you run it at. I always feel there's nothing worse on a motor than to lug it. One local mountain I sometimes go up is quite steep. I keep it at about 5,000 r.p.m. to keep more flow through the rad, and at the max h.p. and torque range, it's never heated doing this. This is only about a ? 3-4 mile climb. It could be a factor.
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
Reading thru the entire thread, I still do not have any detail about the radiator in the car.
Early in the thread it was posted that the car has a custom made aluminum radiator.
Late in the thread it was posted that at one time the car's radiator was 95% blocked but this is now fixed.
Because no one has seen fit to supply us with full information, I have to assume what that REALLY means is that the OEM radiator in the car was 95% blocked, which would of course cause the car to overheat, so it was decided to replace it with a custom radiator that is supposed to have greater cooling capacity, yet the car still overheats.
I submit that the new custom built radiator is not suitable for this application and that putting in a known good OEM radiator will cure the problem.
Early in the thread it was posted that the car has a custom made aluminum radiator.
Late in the thread it was posted that at one time the car's radiator was 95% blocked but this is now fixed.
Because no one has seen fit to supply us with full information, I have to assume what that REALLY means is that the OEM radiator in the car was 95% blocked, which would of course cause the car to overheat, so it was decided to replace it with a custom radiator that is supposed to have greater cooling capacity, yet the car still overheats.
I submit that the new custom built radiator is not suitable for this application and that putting in a known good OEM radiator will cure the problem.
Maxmod
Lachlan (aus)
radiator info
The standard radiator was worse in this situation however the pipes weren't changed then.
The custom radiator was the one which was blocked due to the previous engine being very tired and therefore rusty.
It is well known that aluminum radiators block quiet easily i am led to believe i have considered doing another flush because of this.
But the radiator is seeing roughly a 25degree drop across the pipes with the fan running.
The standard radiator was worse in this situation however the pipes weren't changed then.
The custom radiator was the one which was blocked due to the previous engine being very tired and therefore rusty.
It is well known that aluminum radiators block quiet easily i am led to believe i have considered doing another flush because of this.
But the radiator is seeing roughly a 25degree drop across the pipes with the fan running.
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
"But the radiator is seeing roughly a 25degree drop across the pipes with the fan running."
How was this measured?
Do you have an infrared/noncontact thermometer available to you?
And under what conditions?
Can you post some pix of the radiator and how it's plumbed into the car?
Does the custom rad have a way to bleed air from the top of the radiator?
How was this measured?
Do you have an infrared/noncontact thermometer available to you?
And under what conditions?
Can you post some pix of the radiator and how it's plumbed into the car?
Does the custom rad have a way to bleed air from the top of the radiator?
Maxmod
Lachlan (aus)
the rad
The radiator was built to replicate the x radiator exactly using all its mounts bleed scew position pipe location etc. Its just 40% thicker than the original its a twin core item.
This was measured with a hand held laser thermometer not 100% accurate but it gives you a good idea of whats happening.
Cheers
The radiator was built to replicate the x radiator exactly using all its mounts bleed scew position pipe location etc. Its just 40% thicker than the original its a twin core item.
This was measured with a hand held laser thermometer not 100% accurate but it gives you a good idea of whats happening.
Cheers
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
Based on this new information it would seem that the radiator is doing its job.
Next suspect: undercar pipes--a blockage limiting flow.
Have you chased the pipes with a pipe snake to ensure that there are no blockages? Do you have a fiberoptic scope available to you to check the insides of the undercar pipes?
I understand these pipes are new, but during fabrication something might have gone unnoticed that would limit the flow of these pipes.
Here's how I check mine: http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/DSarandrea/083009/
Next suspect: undercar pipes--a blockage limiting flow.
Have you chased the pipes with a pipe snake to ensure that there are no blockages? Do you have a fiberoptic scope available to you to check the insides of the undercar pipes?
I understand these pipes are new, but during fabrication something might have gone unnoticed that would limit the flow of these pipes.
Here's how I check mine: http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/DSarandrea/083009/
Maxmod
Lachlan (aus)
now we are getting serious
There is one thing that i have neglected to mention i am not sure if it is relevant or now.
About 6 months ago i cant recall which engine was in the car i was driving along at highway speed when the temperature shot up. Water was all over the windscreen etc. It was one of the rubber hoses joining the pipes to the front radiator. Now they were old but i would assume something had to pressurize them in order to cause this.
Just a little more information i will be doing the pressurization test today so i will let you know how it goes.
cheers guys
There is one thing that i have neglected to mention i am not sure if it is relevant or now.
About 6 months ago i cant recall which engine was in the car i was driving along at highway speed when the temperature shot up. Water was all over the windscreen etc. It was one of the rubber hoses joining the pipes to the front radiator. Now they were old but i would assume something had to pressurize them in order to cause this.
Just a little more information i will be doing the pressurization test today so i will let you know how it goes.
cheers guys
Maxmod
Lachlan (aus)
UPDATE!
Hey guys ok today a few tests were done.
the pressure test came up ok we found no leaks etc it was holding 17psi.
Now another guy from the car club suggested it was pre ignition that was the problem. I took the car to him today as we discovered it was set at 10degrees tdc of advance. This although only 5degree's higher than normal shouldn't pose a probem. However we discovered that the vaccum advance was advancing it to 30degree's at only 3000rpm.
He believe that up the hill it would have been detonating causing the pistons and block to become extremely hot almost flash boiling the water.
It makes sense to me the real test will be a drive up that long hill again but that might not happen until late this week.
What do you guys think
Hey guys ok today a few tests were done.
the pressure test came up ok we found no leaks etc it was holding 17psi.
Now another guy from the car club suggested it was pre ignition that was the problem. I took the car to him today as we discovered it was set at 10degrees tdc of advance. This although only 5degree's higher than normal shouldn't pose a probem. However we discovered that the vaccum advance was advancing it to 30degree's at only 3000rpm.
He believe that up the hill it would have been detonating causing the pistons and block to become extremely hot almost flash boiling the water.
It makes sense to me the real test will be a drive up that long hill again but that might not happen until late this week.
What do you guys think
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Hmmmmm....
I dunno... I'd rather wait for the results of your test...
I hate to say it... but I resorted to the INTERMITTANT PIPE BLOCKAGE thing as Dan has come around to... some time ago. It is about the only thing left that would SUDDENLY cause the temp to rise.
I would think that if the timing was the cause, it would basically be operating at a HIGHER temperature overall, but not something that would shoot up suddenly.
Maybe our definition of "suddenly" differs?
I dunno... I'd rather wait for the results of your test...
I hate to say it... but I resorted to the INTERMITTANT PIPE BLOCKAGE thing as Dan has come around to... some time ago. It is about the only thing left that would SUDDENLY cause the temp to rise.
I would think that if the timing was the cause, it would basically be operating at a HIGHER temperature overall, but not something that would shoot up suddenly.
Maybe our definition of "suddenly" differs?