Hi Performance Engine for sale on Ebay
- Thread starter cozzoi
- Start date
Arizonax19
True Classic
nice
but don't those rods look to be cast rather than forged...
but don't those rods look to be cast rather than forged...
Mark Plaia
True Classic
Nice looking setup....
The valve cover would be cool on my X, except for the fact that it has no throttle linkage. As to Tommy's point of forged versus cast rods, could go either way. Al Cosentino and Bayless both sold Fiat Dino rods to use in X1/9 & 128. I believe they were forged.
First thing that I would do with it is smooth out some of those creases and edges on the pistones. Definitely dated thinking on the piston top & combustion chamber configuration.
Cam may be a bit hot for street use. This may have been a motor built for something like the old C Sedan class road race if the cam truly has over 12mm lift.
It will be interesting to see where this one goes. Was definitely built for a 128.
Ciao,
The valve cover would be cool on my X, except for the fact that it has no throttle linkage. As to Tommy's point of forged versus cast rods, could go either way. Al Cosentino and Bayless both sold Fiat Dino rods to use in X1/9 & 128. I believe they were forged.
First thing that I would do with it is smooth out some of those creases and edges on the pistones. Definitely dated thinking on the piston top & combustion chamber configuration.
Cam may be a bit hot for street use. This may have been a motor built for something like the old C Sedan class road race if the cam truly has over 12mm lift.
It will be interesting to see where this one goes. Was definitely built for a 128.
Ciao,
Matt Brannon - Midwest Bayless
Mad.Matt
Interesting...
Definitely looks like regular old cast 1300 rods, as evidenced by the square end caps. Nothing special to the crank (no knife-edging or counterweight reduction). Something catching my eye though is the pop-up height of the pistons. I don't recall a FAZA piston having an excessive pop-up height (not the wedge dome part but the crown). From the pix it looks like it's at least .050 high maybe more. Looking at pix of the water pump side of the block, it does not look like the deck has been shaved much if at all. It does not take much to make the water pump housing completely flush, or even taller than the block if the deck is excessively milled. Interesting that the head has not been milled to remove the NA-spec combustion ring. The cam does not look at first glance like a 12+MM lift cam but who knows. With that much lift, you have to be very careful with valve set-up as its the ragged edge of coil bind with nearly every spring combo available.
Anyways, not dissing the product, just some observations. Seller sure is proud of the Abarth valve cover!
-M
Definitely looks like regular old cast 1300 rods, as evidenced by the square end caps. Nothing special to the crank (no knife-edging or counterweight reduction). Something catching my eye though is the pop-up height of the pistons. I don't recall a FAZA piston having an excessive pop-up height (not the wedge dome part but the crown). From the pix it looks like it's at least .050 high maybe more. Looking at pix of the water pump side of the block, it does not look like the deck has been shaved much if at all. It does not take much to make the water pump housing completely flush, or even taller than the block if the deck is excessively milled. Interesting that the head has not been milled to remove the NA-spec combustion ring. The cam does not look at first glance like a 12+MM lift cam but who knows. With that much lift, you have to be very careful with valve set-up as its the ragged edge of coil bind with nearly every spring combo available.
Anyways, not dissing the product, just some observations. Seller sure is proud of the Abarth valve cover!
-M
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Mark... Can ya comment on the...
... piston height over the deck?
That, plus the pop-ups and all looks like it would develop a pretty high squish!
The roughness of the cam lobe surfaces bothers me a bit also, and I don't remember seeing the rod or main caps pulled... Lots of unknowns here.
... piston height over the deck?
That, plus the pop-ups and all looks like it would develop a pretty high squish!
The roughness of the cam lobe surfaces bothers me a bit also, and I don't remember seeing the rod or main caps pulled... Lots of unknowns here.
Agree with Matt
It looks like several stock pieces (crank, rods) with some decent high performance pieces added. However, I see why they didn't deck the block or mill the dish out of the head to get the compression up; look how far the pistons stick up past the block. They probably take up most of the room in the dish.
Dave
It looks like several stock pieces (crank, rods) with some decent high performance pieces added. However, I see why they didn't deck the block or mill the dish out of the head to get the compression up; look how far the pistons stick up past the block. They probably take up most of the room in the dish.
Dave
Mark Plaia
True Classic
Piston pop-up, etc.....
The piston pop-up out of the deck looks okay on these. However the big, wedge shape piston domes do not subscribe to current theory. The thought with the domes is to fill up the combustion chamber with material to get more compression. Down side of that approach is that the domes interfere with the flame travel off the spark plug.
Current theory dictates using a flat top piston to allow for even and complete combustion. There are some side angle cross section views of the combustion chamber in the FIAT Shop Manual. It shows the chamber shape as a V with the narrow point right at the spark plug. The flat part of the piston top against the flat part of the head sends the mixture toward the spark plug. Then the flame front initiates and expands, and the chamber shape exactly accommodates it. Lampredi got it right.
Put the dome in there, and it gets in the way.
This does look to be a very high compression engine.
Ciao,
The piston pop-up out of the deck looks okay on these. However the big, wedge shape piston domes do not subscribe to current theory. The thought with the domes is to fill up the combustion chamber with material to get more compression. Down side of that approach is that the domes interfere with the flame travel off the spark plug.
Current theory dictates using a flat top piston to allow for even and complete combustion. There are some side angle cross section views of the combustion chamber in the FIAT Shop Manual. It shows the chamber shape as a V with the narrow point right at the spark plug. The flat part of the piston top against the flat part of the head sends the mixture toward the spark plug. Then the flame front initiates and expands, and the chamber shape exactly accommodates it. Lampredi got it right.
Put the dome in there, and it gets in the way.
This does look to be a very high compression engine.
Ciao,
fiatmonkey
Tim Hoover
Weren't all Abarth rods forged? I recall having this discussion with an old friend of mine who was pretty knowledgable on all things Abarth.
Xmember
True Classic
:nod: and to be honest it looks like Abarth logo and name decals were used as a "masking" stencils then the cover was spray painted and decals removed... I thought all Abarth logos etc are cast in the pieces themselves. combined with the other uncertain details that arnt adding up, and Im gonna have to call this one a fake
fiatmonkey
Tim Hoover
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Mark Plaia
True Classic
Fake what? -- This is no "fake"...
The seller identifies the motor as a high performance motor with FAZA and Abarth parts. Every bit of which is true. It fully represents the state of high performance, single cam motors as of 15-20 years ago. I know - I was there.
The seller has made no mis-representation. Seller stated that he was told certain things by the person he obtained the motor from and that he was not able to verify them. Calling this a "fake" ascribes motives to the seller that are not deserved. Let's be careful and courteous.
Ciao,
The seller identifies the motor as a high performance motor with FAZA and Abarth parts. Every bit of which is true. It fully represents the state of high performance, single cam motors as of 15-20 years ago. I know - I was there.
The seller has made no mis-representation. Seller stated that he was told certain things by the person he obtained the motor from and that he was not able to verify them. Calling this a "fake" ascribes motives to the seller that are not deserved. Let's be careful and courteous.
Ciao,
fiatmonkey
Tim Hoover
Ok - agreed using the term "fake" one meaning being "not genuine" is not warranted.
That said we can comment positively or in a way to help this seller with this engine sale by providing "best of our knowledge" information.
Based upon the experts who can contribute to this thread which parts of this engine do we believe to be FAZA/Abarth parts? Based upon my knowledge I am pretty sure the pistons are but I can not say for certain on the cams. My understanding they should not be cast but billet.
Arizonax19
True Classic
that would be the general consensus
but consensus doesn't always mean "it's a fact" though either.
I looked at my striped 1300 with cast rods and they look EXACTLY the same as these, but then this was supposedly a "race built" engine too - by Bailey's here in PHX. They sure look like cast though compared to the way the forged ones in my stripped 1500 look...
but consensus doesn't always mean "it's a fact" though either.
I looked at my striped 1300 with cast rods and they look EXACTLY the same as these, but then this was supposedly a "race built" engine too - by Bailey's here in PHX. They sure look like cast though compared to the way the forged ones in my stripped 1500 look...
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
Nothing Abarth about this engine at all... amazing how one word can stir up a whole lot of interest... cam cover looks like a paint and mask off job.
It's pretty obvious that the seller has bought a can of silver paint and tried to tart it up... 1st step of a dodgey engine sale...
Pistons are pitted by either water or detonation ... seller claims only 400miles!!
camshaft doesn't look too great on the surface either...
I hope no one here is bidding...
caveat emptor
It's pretty obvious that the seller has bought a can of silver paint and tried to tart it up... 1st step of a dodgey engine sale...
Pistons are pitted by either water or detonation ... seller claims only 400miles!!
camshaft doesn't look too great on the surface either...
I hope no one here is bidding...
caveat emptor
roadbox
True Classic
I made a comment about this in the FS&W thread. Agree there is nothing Abarth under that red cam cover. I know a couple guys who own authentic Abarth cars, having seen those cars in close quarters, I am increasingly less cool with the happy application of Abarth scorpions and text logos. I have tested it, they don't actually add any HP. If it had FAZA on it, or even Fiat, I'd be fine because there actually is something of either underneath it. But hey, if it's for fun, or good luck, or just think it's cool for your own car, then whatever makes you happy - I am no-one's judge.
I thought they were just roughly cast, but that could be.
Except for the FAZA markings, and without documentation, the rest of it is "take my word for it" ...actually worse, it's "take my word and that of the guy I bought it from". Lots of pics, not a lot of meaning - though Matt certainly knows what to look for!
Interesting thread.
John O.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
There is more...
Cylinder head is a1300cc USA smog pump version with external air injector manifold. Look at the pitting on the combustion chambers, this is steam erosion which means this cylinder head has been used for a whole lot more than 400 miles. The intake and exhaust ports are stock, valve seats are rusty, cam does not look like a 12.7mm lift cam, it's more like a FAZA 40/80... Bigger valves, maybe, but there is no de-shrouding of the valve area..bad...
Bottom end is basically stock... with old school pop up pistons (FAZA) that don't work very well.
This is NOT an Abarth engine.. fake Abarth paint job on the valve cover yes. but again, NOT an Abarth engine..
And, it's currently bidded up to nee $1200 with almost 3 days to do.. Some one is going to get a shake down..a disappointment and mis-representing Abarth..
Cylinder head is a1300cc USA smog pump version with external air injector manifold. Look at the pitting on the combustion chambers, this is steam erosion which means this cylinder head has been used for a whole lot more than 400 miles. The intake and exhaust ports are stock, valve seats are rusty, cam does not look like a 12.7mm lift cam, it's more like a FAZA 40/80... Bigger valves, maybe, but there is no de-shrouding of the valve area..bad...
Bottom end is basically stock... with old school pop up pistons (FAZA) that don't work very well.
This is NOT an Abarth engine.. fake Abarth paint job on the valve cover yes. but again, NOT an Abarth engine..
And, it's currently bidded up to nee $1200 with almost 3 days to do.. Some one is going to get a shake down..a disappointment and mis-representing Abarth..
cozzoi
George
Went to see Abarth engine on Ebay in person Today
Looks in pretty decent condition, removed the cam end cap and found that the cam is a Faza Daytona 35 75 (Original), pistons are Faza, cannot tell about the rods, oil pan was bolted back on. Too bad is a 1300cc otherwise might be good for my baby Martini.
Looks in pretty decent condition, removed the cam end cap and found that the cam is a Faza Daytona 35 75 (Original), pistons are Faza, cannot tell about the rods, oil pan was bolted back on. Too bad is a 1300cc otherwise might be good for my baby Martini.