<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Major oil leak-newly acquired X1/9-can't find leak!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999 at 8:19 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Ken Jones"); // --> </SCRIPT>Ken Jones <NOSCRIPT> Ken Jones </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Continuing saga of car mentioned in "Used X1/9" thread...
Ok folks, this engine is now bathing itself in oil, but only burning the stuff that sprays onto the muffler - running fine. I suspect a combination of valve gasket and the cam seal (and/or one of the neighboring seals) but am hoping for better.
Son had car out last night, noticed large puddle of oil under car along with an oil trail, and then added WAY too much in the dark - possibly as much as three quarts over! Problem obviously existed before overfill, but who knows how much (if any) that may have worsened it.
Symptoms:
1- Oil is found mostly on the belt side of the engine compartment, from the bottom of the engine cover/hood to the right rear transaxle, control arm, and oil pan.
2- Most oil is on plug(front) side, from right side to around the second plug.
3- Oil on back side is mostly on engine compartment wall, very little on the air pump and some on the alternator (I think it's the alternator?, no A/C on this car).
4- Good amount of oil behind the cam belt cover. Although I hope that the oil comes from a gasket, I suspect a seal.
Actions taken today:
A-Tried to clean up the motor and then look for seepage on idle, but oil leak waited for drive test. Then so much that source was elusive.
B-Didn't have torque specs for valve cover, or a new gasket, but tried tightening bolts a wee bit (they were pretty tight and I added less than 1/8 turn, no gorilla force used). Also did same on oil pan and here the bolts were not very tight at all - again just snugged them down but several needed a couple of turns.
C-Found the oil volume by changing the oil today with 10W-40 and a can of stop-leak (worth a shot, but no cookie). Was given wrong filter, parts guy said it was for '80 and would work on an '86 - WRONG - so used old filter. Old oil was pretty clean.
D-Son took car on 60 mile drive. No puddles noted, but still leaking and much smoking from oil on muffler (more smoke on first half of drive). At halfway point he popped the engine cover and had oil running off the bottom of the cover, at end just an even spray coating at same places noted above. Oil level down about 1.5 quarts by his return. PO had claimed that she did not need to add oil between 3000 mile changes, but even though no problems were noted on test drive her statements are suspect now.
So, any easy thing to look for that could spew this much oil? If not, what are your suspects?
BTW I did notice an odd fitting on the rear of the right engine mount with nothing attached - what is this?
All reasonable suggestions will be considered, but I am afraid that son will be using car and adding oil as needed until we can properly fix it.
KJ<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yuk!
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 25 1999, 10:58 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ken,
the oil is clearly being sprayed around by one of the pulleys.
I don't think that it is one of your gaskets with the amount of oil you are losing.
I would look for a leaking shaft seal.
(Camshaft seal and aux. shaft seal are the same seal, BTW).
Remove the timing cover, clean the area and try to see if it coming from one of the seals.
Since you see a lot of oil near the top of the engine, I would suspect the cam seal.
I have not changed any of these, so I can't be more help than this.
If it is the cam seal:
The repair may not be so bad and will give you the oportunity to change the timing belt.
Loosen the cam wheel bolt while the belt is still on, this will keep the cam from turning.
Some engine mounts have a pointer on them to align the cam wheel with. Could that be what you are seeing?
Mine unfortunately doesn't.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Bob"); // --> </SCRIPT>Bob <NOSCRIPT> Bob </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->was joe hazelwood the po of this vehicle?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 28 1999, 1:03 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->from your discription of the location of the oil leak i would be looking at what the fiat manual calls "the cylonic trap"... it is the breather for the crank case. it is located on the plug side of the motor approximatly below the #2 plug. one of two things could have happened 1. the hose can come off and it will spray oil every where or 2. there is a bolt which holds the cover/hose barb onto the block which may have come loose. as for the front of the engine if you look behind the main pulley on the crankshaft there is a cover which bolts to the top of the oil pan and the side of the block... another source for an oil leek
Bob<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Ken Jones"); // --> </SCRIPT>Ken Jones <NOSCRIPT> Ken Jones </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PO not a Joe, & thanks for ideas<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 28 1999, 9:10 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the suggestions Bob. I will try to look at them when my son returns with the car tomorrow.
Also, the PO was a lady in Sterling Heights, Michigan, and my son will be seeing her Italian mechanic tomorrow, too.
KJ<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999 at 8:19 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Ken Jones"); // --> </SCRIPT>Ken Jones <NOSCRIPT> Ken Jones </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Continuing saga of car mentioned in "Used X1/9" thread...
Ok folks, this engine is now bathing itself in oil, but only burning the stuff that sprays onto the muffler - running fine. I suspect a combination of valve gasket and the cam seal (and/or one of the neighboring seals) but am hoping for better.
Son had car out last night, noticed large puddle of oil under car along with an oil trail, and then added WAY too much in the dark - possibly as much as three quarts over! Problem obviously existed before overfill, but who knows how much (if any) that may have worsened it.
Symptoms:
1- Oil is found mostly on the belt side of the engine compartment, from the bottom of the engine cover/hood to the right rear transaxle, control arm, and oil pan.
2- Most oil is on plug(front) side, from right side to around the second plug.
3- Oil on back side is mostly on engine compartment wall, very little on the air pump and some on the alternator (I think it's the alternator?, no A/C on this car).
4- Good amount of oil behind the cam belt cover. Although I hope that the oil comes from a gasket, I suspect a seal.
Actions taken today:
A-Tried to clean up the motor and then look for seepage on idle, but oil leak waited for drive test. Then so much that source was elusive.
B-Didn't have torque specs for valve cover, or a new gasket, but tried tightening bolts a wee bit (they were pretty tight and I added less than 1/8 turn, no gorilla force used). Also did same on oil pan and here the bolts were not very tight at all - again just snugged them down but several needed a couple of turns.
C-Found the oil volume by changing the oil today with 10W-40 and a can of stop-leak (worth a shot, but no cookie). Was given wrong filter, parts guy said it was for '80 and would work on an '86 - WRONG - so used old filter. Old oil was pretty clean.
D-Son took car on 60 mile drive. No puddles noted, but still leaking and much smoking from oil on muffler (more smoke on first half of drive). At halfway point he popped the engine cover and had oil running off the bottom of the cover, at end just an even spray coating at same places noted above. Oil level down about 1.5 quarts by his return. PO had claimed that she did not need to add oil between 3000 mile changes, but even though no problems were noted on test drive her statements are suspect now.
So, any easy thing to look for that could spew this much oil? If not, what are your suspects?
BTW I did notice an odd fitting on the rear of the right engine mount with nothing attached - what is this?
All reasonable suggestions will be considered, but I am afraid that son will be using car and adding oil as needed until we can properly fix it.
KJ<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yuk!
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 25 1999, 10:58 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ken,
the oil is clearly being sprayed around by one of the pulleys.
I don't think that it is one of your gaskets with the amount of oil you are losing.
I would look for a leaking shaft seal.
(Camshaft seal and aux. shaft seal are the same seal, BTW).
Remove the timing cover, clean the area and try to see if it coming from one of the seals.
Since you see a lot of oil near the top of the engine, I would suspect the cam seal.
I have not changed any of these, so I can't be more help than this.
If it is the cam seal:
The repair may not be so bad and will give you the oportunity to change the timing belt.
Loosen the cam wheel bolt while the belt is still on, this will keep the cam from turning.
Some engine mounts have a pointer on them to align the cam wheel with. Could that be what you are seeing?
Mine unfortunately doesn't.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->was joe hazelwood the po of this vehicle?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 28 1999, 1:03 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->from your discription of the location of the oil leak i would be looking at what the fiat manual calls "the cylonic trap"... it is the breather for the crank case. it is located on the plug side of the motor approximatly below the #2 plug. one of two things could have happened 1. the hose can come off and it will spray oil every where or 2. there is a bolt which holds the cover/hose barb onto the block which may have come loose. as for the front of the engine if you look behind the main pulley on the crankshaft there is a cover which bolts to the top of the oil pan and the side of the block... another source for an oil leek
Bob<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->PO not a Joe, & thanks for ideas<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 28 1999, 9:10 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the suggestions Bob. I will try to look at them when my son returns with the car tomorrow.
Also, the PO was a lady in Sterling Heights, Michigan, and my son will be seeing her Italian mechanic tomorrow, too.
KJ<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]