New Bertone Badges

CaliforniaX1/9

CaliforniaX1/9

LarsSivad
I have a question to anybody who has recently purchased a new reproduction Bertone Badge.

The distributor of the badges in question is aware of this posting and is currently requesting further information from the manufacturing plant.

Seriously, I’m a bit timid in bringing this up as I do not wish to cause any heartache to anyone and I will gladly announce my error based on my ignorance with the property’s of polyurethane. The badges themselves are a perfect reproduction and seem to have high quality workmanship, except for the polyurethane, and it is the polyurethane that is center of this email query.

Not sure if this is unique to the badges I’ve received, a systemic production issue or simply not knowing what I’m seeing or my lack of experience with Polyurethane.

1) Received two remanufactured Bertone Badges.
2) Noticed the Polyurethane protective covering is not solid, yet jelly like.
3) I can press my fingernail into the polyurethane and leave a dimple.
4) Leaving the dimple alone, the dimple will re-flow to the point of never being present.
5) Can buff the polyurethane with the palm of hand and re-flow/re-jell to the point of never being present.

I’ve uploaded some photos so hopefully they will show up in this post.

My question is this;

Has anybody else had this issue or; Am I such a newbie to polyurethane I don’t know that this is a normal function and expected?

Details of the photos,

  • In the first image the badge was untouched and had been sitting for several days.
  • In the second image the badge was held in the palm of my left hand while my right hand pressed the middle three fingers into the surface of the badge for approximately 2-4 seconds. Moderate pressure.
  • In the third and final image the badge was buffed with the palm of my hand until the impressions were re-flowed into the Polyurethane jell.
If I had not buffed the impressions away on the third image the impressions would re-jell into the Polyurethane covering in several minutes to a day; I’ve not ran that experiment.

FYI: both badges have the same issue, I only photographed one of the badges at random.



Larry

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4060/bertonebadge.jpg

UPDATE: Some have asked me for the vendor's contact information for purchasing, with the vendors approval,

Henk Martens
Keimate 5
6663 KB Lent
Tel: 024-3227666
martens_tuil*hetnet.nl <-email, no idea why the 'at' symbol does not show up; but the * is where you'll put the 'at' symbol
 
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i

I have no ideea !
but if your wondering why i answer your post, i can give you an answer.
I HATE when i have a post and i see 10000 views and no answers . I really hate that .
good luck in getting your answers.
 
Mine have the soft touch feel too, at least they wont crack then...?

Compared to my faded and delaminating originals, as Greg says, I can also live with this.
 
Repro Badge

Larry,
I buy two badges and both have the same issue like yours but compare to my old original who changed with years, I’m considering lucky to have a repro of this quality.
 
Thank you for the input; in some sense I can agree, compared to old, faded and cracked the new are far better.

Yet, has anyone considered the weather, now it’s rather cold (where I live, California USA), especially if one contrasts now to the heat from summer (60degF now 105degF summer).

Does anybody own one of these new badges in the southern hemisphere where it’s summer now?

If I leave the badge resting on a slight angle the polyurethane will flow toward the leading edge (65degF room). I can press it back with slight pressure; what may happen during the heat of summer?

Again I am a complete novice when it comes to the proper properties of polyurethane. Does it flow more readily when warm?

Larry
 
It's not supposed to flow Larry

I'm thinking the formula they used to pour the clear layer on wasn't mixed in the proper amounts.
It definitely should not flow. I've seen soft coatings as you've described, but flow? No way.

Be sure your supplier knows about this. If there's a defect, it's likely they'll replace it.

My :2c:
 
There are many formulations for Polyuerethane

I'm not an organic chemist, but I've seen examples that are hard and brittle and soft and pliable, like GM bumpers. So it wouldn't surprise me to see this. Could have been done on purpose. I wonder if it is done to keep the coating clear longer. Just a WAG.

Jim V
Milford, OH
 
Just in from the garage where my badge is hard (although it is below freezing out there)

I do have soft badging on another car but it does not "flow" regardless of heat.


P
 
We Don't Need No Stinking Badges!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdZKCh6RsU&NR=1"]YouTube- We Dont Need No Stinkin Badges![/ame]

ok, anyone have a link to the repro badges?
 
I like your style!

I was thinking of the same clip...

But in a way, i'm serious about not needing badges. On my black 78, I have no emblems at all and people ask "what is that"? I kinda like that...:wink2:
 
"flow" Im not understanding. Deformation/impressions I can grasp. Are you claiming that under the clear its still liquid? I thats the case then yes the manufacture needs to know, if its a simple matter that you can leave a temporary depression in the badge with your fingernail then there is no problem at all. Ive had wheel emblems,key fobs, and badges all of this material. Its easier for the factory to pour into the desired shape and they typicallypour tem over a decal or othe piece tat has the image (anoter way these save production cost and keep the consumer cost low), they hold up fairly well for a few to several years, but most badging in this type arnt that expensive as compared to forking out bigger $ for real badging thats OEM. Basically you get what you pay for (not saying your cheap or the badges are bad) but for $30 or so you cant go wrong, but at that price you have to realize your not gonna have enamel quality bec they arnt enamel. GL post pics of them installed:thumbsup:
 
Input from the Manufacturer


Without trying to reword the manufacturer’s input; I’ll paste the reply as given to me by the distributor of the emblems.


…. the resin used is a flexible (not hard) polyurethane resin, it is made not to be hard so that you can apply it to slightly curved surfaces if needed.

We did once sell hard resin products (not to yourself though) and they yellowed over a short period due to the reaction with UV light. The way he has described the problem is what the product should correctly be doing.

The original Bertone products may have had a hard resin coating but we do not use it….

The distributor has been very forthright with his reply’s and I would like to thank him for keeping me in the loop.

I will not attempt to qualify the quality of the new soft covering but will update all once the summer heat is here.

On my badges the covering is welling and I can depress it so it doesn’t rise; I’m not saying its liquid but it doesn’t respond to what I’m aware regarding the properties of Polyurethane. I can leave fingerprints into the Polyurethane but the fingerprints will ‘re-flow’ into a clean smooth surface if left for several minutes or buffed out with the palm of my hand.

So based upon the input from so many and the Manufacturer, for now, I’m on the No Big Deal side of this debate until the summer heat arrives, then I’ll finalize my decision.

Thanks to all for their input.

Larry
 
I agree...

After replacing my FIAT badges once and watching them fade away in 6 months, and then FIAT faded away in todo... I decided not to do any advertising for them either.

I remember seeing a box labeled when I was in the service and it came from GSA... and on it were the words: "If you make it, be proud enough to mark it... PRINTED BY JOHN SMITH & SONS"

When my second set of badges faded away I figured FIAT was no longer proud enough to mark their cars and had built in the "fade factor" to coincide with most of the plastics falling apart also.

HA!

Anyway... I have the Bertone emblems on the little side vents and the word FIAT in the instrument panel, but that's it! I love the smooth look of the bullnose also!
 
Black-Tooth said:
After replacing my FIAT badges once and watching them fade away in 6 months, and then FIAT faded away in todo... I decided not to do any advertising for them either.

I remember seeing a box labeled when I was in the service and it came from GSA... and on it were the words: "If you make it, be proud enough to mark it... PRINTED BY JOHN SMITH & SONS"

When my second set of badges faded away I figured FIAT was no longer proud enough to mark their cars and had built in the "fade factor" to coincide with most of the plastics falling apart also.

HA!

Anyway... I have the Bertone emblems on the little side vents and the word FIAT in the instrument panel, but that's it! I love the smooth look of the bullnose also!
Click to expand...

Agreed - when I am ready to post pics of the 86 you will see the same.

As far as the emblems go sounds like you have better than stock ones now.
 
DSC00782.jpg
 
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